A question for those in the UK who oppose Gun rights


#21

>There are higher gun-related homicide rates in the United States than in my third world country with rampant criminality, extensive gun trafficking with mob activity, and elevated drug-related violence

lol


#22

Did you misread my point on why separating violent crime statistics and separating them into a category like gun statistics is sophistry?

That also strengthens my point that violent crime is disconnected from the concentration of fire arms in your country.


#23

Yes. But “Not-as-bad-as” is bullshit. You still have far more deaths by weapons than most countries in the world.

A lot of arms trafficking bands and material in Argentina comes from the United States and goes through the Tri-Border area (Argentina-Brazil-Paraguay border). Nobody knows how many weapons are in this country. And considering that the system of gun ownership is heavily bureaucraticized, to the point where one judge couldn’t get a permit, there are plenty of people who are unregistered and still own a gun. There are Facebook groups even, where you can buy a gun “in private”.


#24

Not as bad as is not my point, my point is that if you remove the weapon in question ie the fire arm, the motivations and desires/passions that led up to said murder are still there and there is little to no reason to suggest this would serious change if fire arms were not apart of the picture, there’s still knifes and simply beating the person to death. The focus on gun crime rather then violent crime in general implies that guns magically make people wanna kill, which is absurd.


#25

Well there is, the extreme difficulty involved and relative expense in actually getting your hands on a firearm.

I don’t think you can say that from the statistics. Ok owners of firearms aren’t any more likely to murder someone, but there is a definite correlation between murder and firearm use, as I have shown. Taking away firearms won’t stop homicides, but they will make them a hell of a lot harder to occur.

But still way higher than most first world countries.

In the last few years knife crime has soared, and I think it is due to horrific cuts to policing and to community and social work.


#26

You can’t deny that it makes it far, far easier. Killing someone or a group of people at 30 or more meters in matter of seconds is very different than trying to do it with a knife or something like it.

Now, I’m not calling for banning guns. Obviously it’s the best way for people to protect themselves from oppression, government or otherwise. But at least have some control that’s actually effective, like psychological checks, decent training on use and safety, fight gun trafficking, and do something about incompetent policemen, which the US is painfully bad at doing. Also, the NRA being a lobby group is nonsense.


#27

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1[quote=“oli, post:25, topic:110267”]
I don’t think you can say that from the statistics. Ok owners of firearms aren’t any more likely to murder someone, but there is a definite correlation between murder and firearm use, as I have shown. Taking away firearms won’t stop homicides, but they will make them a hell of a lot harder to occur.
[/quote]

But on the scale of operations you are limiting the rights of individuals for something that is statistically insignificant. I have not even begun to mention for example plausibility behind say a tyrannical government or, your case seizing the means of (re)production

Much of central europe have very high rates of firearm ownership, typical examples being austria france and swizterland- this one doesnt even need a proper background check, just recently issued criminal records and an ID to prove your a resident, even easier then the usa to get a gun and its the same kind of guns as well.

That would follow.


#28

Which is why you rent or steal a truck, or make a bomb (in ireland the IRA made loads of these, really easily)

I can actually get behind those checks, and agree with them. Again im not against restrictions, im arguing against the uks and by extension irelands total bans on them.


#29

The problem lies with the inability for any law to make “nobody has guns” a reality.


#30

But it was fairly successful in Britain, given the results.


#31

Yes, it’s easy. But you first have to know, and find how to know, because you hardly find that information. And how many people can actually make a bomb, anyway? Far less than those who own guns.


#32

At what period of time, and during what political climate, and what rate of gun ownership at the time?


#33

There are literally books for free on the Internet that go into detail on how to do that, as well as any organization (most criminal ones for example) can acquire someone with reasonable chemistry knowledge.


#34

Only if you’re dumb enough to look under 18/21


#35

Relative to the USA they are extremely difficult to find, the article was shocked at how it was possible to buy a gun because in the UK not many people have guns.

The USA has 112 guns per 100 citizens. Continental Europe do have more guns than in the UK, but nowhere near this many. They sit at about 30 per citizen. Anyway, I agree that firearm ownership does not directly lead to higher probability to commit crime, but my point is that murders, robberies and other crimes are much more likely to be carried out with guns when they are available, and taking them away would stop that and make it much harder for murders to be carried out.


#36

You haven’t explained how this would be done.

We border Mexico where many illegal guns enter to begin with. It’s not as simple as “take away all the guns”, not only are you literally asking for a revolution at that point, you’re leaving criminals with guns.


#37

@Nationalist_Libertarian


#38

Guns are much more dangerous than knives. Most thugs can’t throw knives but they can shoot a pistol at you. At least with a knife you can try and run away or fight back.


#39

Or you know, you can shoot them back with your own gun?


#40

Or just have no guns at all? In england i’ve never heard of any shooting outside of London because there’s barely any guns outside there (except hunters and farmers but they aren’t really dangerous).