Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?


#1

Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

The descriptions of atheist and agnostic might leave some wiggle room between the two but do not call an atheist agnostic or vice vers or you are likely in for a fight.

Regards
DL


#2

I think atheism is more along the lines of “false until proven true”, rather than no god being ideal. More generally, they don’t think anything is real unless it is unfalsifiable. It’s not that no god is held as an ideal, but falsifiability is. Atheists lack ideological closure in this way, and the only way to reach ideological closure is to give up on closure and stop desiring it. Christians reach closure with faith, and I’d imagine Muslims do it. It just doesn’t make sense to me that all christians and muslims are idolaters, that’s more of a personal issue than a religious one I see.

How does this relate to idolizing? Well, I’m just pointing out one of the symptoms.


#3

What I mean by ideological closure is having all the answers. Agnostics seem more comfortable living without answers, and I’ve talked with Christians who are confortable with it as well.


#4

Christians, by their label, follow Christ. Christ is their idol. I think they all still swear to the apostles creed but with the plethora of sects and denominations, some might not anymore.

That indicates an open mind which is more of an agnostic trait than an atheist one.

Agnostics say they do not know while the atheist position is that there is no God, and that mental picture is what they idolize as their highest ideal.

Regards
DL


#5

Idk, maybe I’d have to talk to someobody who’s actually been an atheist to get to what athiests hold as ideal. Because to me it sounds like you’re saying people are drawn to atheism because their hearts hold that it is ideal to have no god. For people like that, there really is no god. I might have a more rational ideologue in mind than you when we read ‘atheist’.


#6

My personal theology is along a Platonic string. If god doesn’t exist, people will invent god. Maybe I’ll make a thread about it. I’ve always been more given to mystical experience than being a believer/nonbeliever. I never looked for answers, I’d say, so maybe I’m detached from understanding religious and atheist perspectives.

It might be more accurate to say that my parents never forced any answers upon me.


#7

There is a bit of wiggle room in the definitions of atheist and agnostic but one tends not to want to be labeled by the other label.

Atheist is seen more as anti-theist while agnostic are seekers who have yet to find. They are on the fence while atheists have taken a the side of non-existence.

Regards
DL


#8

And I suppose bisexuals should hurry up and pick a side as well then. That’s a crude view of agnosticism. You see, agnostic is something ive actually been.


#9

Yet you are here.

If you are to start a thread, this might be handy.

Regards
DL


#10

They have. To be bi.

Regards
DL


#11

Your point?

I know. It’s irrelevant to the point.


#12

You are looking for answers. No?

If not, why are you in a debate/discussion board?

I come to learn, teach and preach, in that order.

Learning new being one of the greatest pleasures in life.

Regards
DL


#13

Okay, so here’s the point: just because many people’s evaluation of god is stuck in a binary between not believing and believing, doesn’t mean agnostics are stuck in that binary as well. In queer culture, we have a term for people as you describe. We call them for what they are, Questioning; they are unidentified. People you described should not be identified as agnostic.

Why I make the bi connection is because for herero and homosexuals, their experience is very binary, to the point they believe all bisexuals are actually just questioning. Your view is crude because it is close minded like that, do you see?


#14

So tell us what side they are on. The theist side or the atheist side.

That is not how they are described. They are not questioning and are just enjoying the pleasures that both genders share with them.

No. It is logical and reasoned.

Regards
DL


#15

You’re missing so much context dude.

Under my evaluation here, there’s no bigger difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Then you find the need to nuance the difference between the two in a matter that I find way too simplified.


#16

Go get the dictionary definition of your choice.

Then write your own dictionary style definitions, that resemble the status quo, and I will not KISS and come to your nuanced level.

Regards
DL


#17

I think I was quite straightforward. Agnosticism does not exist in a binary between belief and nonbelief. They are content to have no answer, so they aren’t necessarily seeking the answer. Sorry you missed the point because you only read into sexuality not being a choice.


#18

I did not indicate no choice. I indicated two choices of equal value.

As to your view of agnostic, you are ignoring the dictionary definition and are making up your own.

You win this argument with those bogus definitions as you can change them at will when the going gets tough.

Regards
DL


#19

I never even defined agnostic, dude. An agnostic is somebody who neither believes nor disbelieves in god(s).


#20

If you agree on this definition, I recommend reading back to my first post, because I was trying to be conductive to why those three groups are idolaters while agnostics seem to be outliers.