Can a lawless society exist without chaos?


#1

@JWaller[/USER] [USER=3374]@BingoBongoLand[/USER] [USER=1790]@Estranged Sovereign

Basically, can a society that is without laws, exist, without chaos. As the title stated.

Discuss.


#2

It’s possible, but it would have to have no authority besides each person and their land. There wouldn’t be able to be a leader of everyone, just everyone leading themselves.


#3

Not unless you modified the humans of your society to be completely passive.

Personally I would find that dreadful.


#4

If you have a replacement system such as some system designed to ensure that the community functions together, then sure, but you’d be hard pressed to do so. The original population which establishes such a society and were committed to its ideal would most likely function well, but unless you succeed in creating a system which can [I]successfully[/I] – and without exception – influence the minds of the subsequent generation, you’re fucked. This is also assuming that you could even succeed in getting the original population to go ahead with this.

Of course, I’m going by the standard definition of law as being a system of rules for a nation or a society. These can be hierarchical or horizontal rules, it matters not.


#5

Nope. Societies which lack some kind of institutional authority to enforce domestic security, humans pretty much always exist in (and can regress back into) an incredibly violent honour culture.


#6

Unless you want to significantly increase the chance of being met with a violent death, lawless societies aren’t the way to go. The evidence backs this up:


#7

[QUOTE=“First Order, post: 443057, member: 3058”]Nope. Societies which lack some kind of institutional authority to enforce domestic security, humans pretty much always exist in (and can regress back into) an incredibly violent honour culture.[/QUOTE]

The South is bad enough with an authority. I don’t want to see what it would be like without one…


#8

Bit late to this one…

No, it can’t. People are too flawed. Even in a society with far-reaching intelligence services and police, we still have crime. Basically, Thomas Hobbes, Lord of the Flies etc.


#9

I very much doubt it - all lawless societies of recent times have descended into ansolute chaos snd warfare. Cults will always come up.


#10

[QUOTE=“Alias, post: 442996, member: 2875”]@JWaller[/USER] [USER=3374]@BingoBongoLand[/USER] [USER=1790]@Estranged Sovereign

Basically, can a society that is without laws, exist, without chaos. As the title stated.

Discuss.[/QUOTE]

I think it could. We obey ‘social laws’ all the time and if this could be done on a larger, more organised scale it could be possible.


#11

[QUOTE=“TheLlama, post: 445648, member: 2562”]I think it could. We obey ‘social laws’ all the time and if this could be done on a larger, more organised scale it could be possible.[/QUOTE]

We debated this in Skype, my opinion is:

Law = The system of rules which a particular country or community recognises as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

Now, we discussed that an anarchistic lawless community may have guidelines instead of laws, however, without laws, members of the community would be free to exact whatever retribution they could on a perpetrator, this leads to three situations:

  1. A disorderly retribution, whereby someone steals something, so some members of their community burn their house down.

  2. An orderly retribution, whereby the community agrees together to designate what, if anything, will happen to the perpetrator.

  3. Nothing.

In case 1, this is chaos.

In case 2, we’ve essentially got laws again.

In case 3, we’ve got chaos.


#12

[QUOTE=“JWaller, post: 445675, member: 1206”]We debated this in Skype, my opinion is:

Law = The system of rules which a particular country or community recognises as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

Now, we discussed that an anarchistic lawless community may have guidelines instead of laws, however, without laws, members of the community would be free to exact whatever retribution they could on a perpetrator, this leads to three situations:

  1. A disorderly retribution, whereby someone steals something, so some members of their community burn their house down.

  2. An orderly retribution, whereby the community agrees together to designate what, if anything, will happen to the perpetrator.

  3. Nothing.

In case 1, this is chaos.

In case 2, we’ve essentially got laws again.

In case 3, we’ve got chaos.[/QUOTE]

I don’t mean that. I mean things like saying please and thank you, using cutlery etc, not swearing in certain situations. We all obey minor social niceties I guess is a better word. You wouldn’t steal something because of the negative social implications. These aren’t laws because they aren’t administered by a central authority. In this kind of society though there would need to be 0 poverty.


#13

[QUOTE=“TheLlama, post: 445677, member: 2562”]You wouldn’t steal something because of the negative social implications.[/QUOTE]

Some people wouldn’t, some would.

What happens to those who do?

And what negative social implications?


#14

[QUOTE=“JWaller, post: 445680, member: 1206”]Some people wouldn’t, some would.

What happens to those who do?

And what negative social implications?[/QUOTE]

In a society with 0 poverty there’d be little need to steal. Looked down upon by society as a whole.


#15

[QUOTE=“TheLlama, post: 445682, member: 2562”]In a society with 0 poverty there’d be little need to steal. Looked down upon by society as a whole.[/QUOTE]

Greed and competitiveness is still a thing.

Poverty is a huge reason for crime, but not the only one, as shown by the fact white collar crime exists, securities fraud, etc,.


#16

[QUOTE=“JWaller, post: 445684, member: 1206”]Greed and competitiveness is still a thing.

Poverty is a huge reason for crime, but not the only one, as shown by the fact white collar crime exists, securities fraud, etc,.[/QUOTE]

We’d all have to be equal as well haha

White collar crime would be reduced through the social implications.


#17

[QUOTE=“TheLlama, post: 445686, member: 2562”]We’d all have to be equal as well haha[/QUOTE]

How would this be achieved?

[QUOTE=“TheLlama, post: 445686, member: 2562”]White collar crime would be reduced through the social implications.[/QUOTE]

So right now we have criminal penalties and social implications.

Why would removing the criminal penalties reduce the amount of crime?


#18

[QUOTE=“JWaller, post: 445687, member: 1206”]How would this be achieved?

So right now we have criminal penalties and social implications.

Why would removing the criminal penalties reduce the amount of crime?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know this is a purely theoretical debate and more philosophical.

I think if we look back to how laws actually started. They are essentially an evolved version of social niceties. Common social practices on a larger scale. Society can exist without them without being total chaos. You talk as if most people are only controlled by the law. I think that if you said ‘there are now no laws’ tomorrow crime would go up massively and there would be chaos. But a gradual change where people are gradually freed from law there’d be no change in crime and possibly even a reduction. Getting rid of law is exactly the same as deregulation or legalising gay marriage etc. just on a larger scale. We’re heading towards a society with no laws currently.


#19

Chaos will always exist. That is why we purge the mutant, the xenos, the heretic.


#20

The moment you remove a deterrence for murder, especially in a society no longer god fearing, you will basically have genocide on day one.