Communists: Views on Animal Farm by George Orwell?


#21

[QUOTE=“Billy_Troy, post: 119884, member: 248”]I’d agree with you that people are conditioned to almost fear communism, especially older people in the West (it’s probably the younger people who favour capitalism in old communist countries).

I think the main problems with all the previous attempts at initiating communist nations are a) the nation wasn’t socially or technologically ready, b) it wasn’t democratic, and c) other countries (read: the US) wouldn’t support them (read: invade them). We need some big changes for communism to work.[/QUOTE]
If you can implement those changes then go ahead and do so, I just don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future.


#22

[QUOTE=“FutureShaker, post: 120004, member: 2375”]If you can implement those changes then go ahead and do so, I just don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]

The technological aspect is definitely inevitable. We could easily be there in decades. Democracy is already in use, so that isn’t a problem. For c), I can’t see the US invading any ‘communist’ countries any time soon.


#23

[QUOTE=“Billy_Troy, post: 120010, member: 248”]The technological aspect is definitely inevitable. We could easily be there in decades. Democracy is already in use, so that isn’t a problem. For c), I can’t see the US invading any ‘communist’ countries any time soon.[/QUOTE]
We tolerate China, and we’re working on Cuba. But we certainly wouldn’t be allowing a new communist regime in the Western Hemisphere. Ans what do you mean by “Democracy is already in use”?


#24

[QUOTE=“FutureShaker, post: 120015, member: 2375”]We tolerate China, and we’re working on Cuba. But we certainly wouldn’t be allowing a new communist regime in the Western Hemisphere. Ans what do you mean by “Democracy is already in use”?[/QUOTE]

Are you telling me that if a Western country democratically elected a communist party into power, then the US would invade them? I doubt that.

And by ‘democracy is in use’, I was referring to my second point: virtually all past ‘communist’ countries were not made democratically. I was responding to your point that all of ‘my changes would have to be made’ by saying that most are already implemented.


#25

[QUOTE=“Billy_Troy, post: 120022, member: 248”]Are you telling me that if a Western country democratically elected a communist party into power, then the US would invade them? I doubt that.

And by ‘democracy is in use’, I was referring to my second point: virtually all past ‘communist’ countries were not made democratically. I was responding to your point that all of ‘my changes would have to be made’ by saying that most are already implemented.[/QUOTE]
If it was elected democratically no, but I don’t think they would make it easy for them however.


#26

[QUOTE=“Gos, post: 119750, member: 2768”]It is a great piece of work, however - I think 1984 is painfully more accurate and meaningful to today’s society.[/QUOTE]
Brave new world takes the cake there.


#27

[QUOTE=“FutureShaker, post: 120015, member: 2375”]We tolerate China, and we’re working on Cuba.[/quote]Cuba is barely socialist, if at all, and China stopped trying to be Maoist 35 years ago.


#28

[QUOTE=“John Optegrove, post: 121378, member: 1254”]Cuba is barely socialist, if at all, and China stopped trying to be Maoist 35 years ago.[/QUOTE]
The point I’mtrying to make with those examples is thay communist countries nevermaintaintheir communist beliefs butratherthey fallto thewayside in place of tyranny


#29

Had to reply even if the topic is so old.

The “no true communism” or “no true socialism” arguments don’t really see what Animal Farm wants to tell the reader. There always will be a power hungry group that will use all means necessary to grab and hold onto power. The idealism portrayed by snowball has no chance in a system, that is so easy to overthrow by concentrating power. Communism and Socialism will always end up with a totalitarian leader, there is no defense mechanism.

In a democratic and capitalistic society political power and monetary power are divided. Capitalism can flourish in many different variations of democracies and is an outlet for power hungry people and groups to do something, that might even benefit society. While people who pursue political power can decide how to distribute the wealth (in Europe more is distributed in the US less).

It’s not a perfect system, but it is by far more resilient against totalitarian regimes. It kept the balance for centuries in some states while communism and socialism can’t even really form before a Dictator takes over.


#30

Democracy is the defense mechanism, though it can be argued that democracy is just a liberal capitalist tool.

Socialism was attempted in mostly poor countries with no technological development, something needed for either of those two things to take place. Rather, western society flourished because it held all the cards, and used those cards against any socialist societies that attempted to exist.


#31

Orwell literally fought alongside anarchists and communists in a revolution in Spain in the 1930s. You don’t have the first clue what his work is trying to tell his readers.


#32

They fail to mention his works praising the socialists or being a socialist, or wanting a United socialist Europe (pan Europeanism before it was cool), most socialists understand it to be a critique of totalitarian methods, not a critique of communists/socialists in general, the very “excellent” excuses to betray our own principles and rules etc.


#33

So Orwell being the socialist decided to condemn his own ideology and books? And as if there is any control of that kind of person you bring up today, lone capitalists today are more powerful then entire fucking nations, they control the USA for fecks sakes, that’s just as much as an argument against all ideologies, not just socialism. Liberterian socialist ideology and theory is heavily based around halting any serious chance of power being established ie all major decisions done via direct democracies.


#34

It was literally a mockery of when communism in the USSR became distorted. It had nothing to do with actual communism, it was pretty much a criticism of Stalin implementing a dictatorship and killing dissenters. I thought it was a great read. (I’m a Socialist btw, but still)


#35

It was a critisism of Stalin implementing a dictatorship and killing dissenters. Not really about communism. The plot of the story pretty much goes: Animals have a revolution, one animal takes over and fucks over the rest like a capitalist. So it was pretty just talking about Stalin.


#36

Muh human nature


#37

On communism: “We are not communists … we are revolutionaries” who do not 'belong to the commonly accepted grouping of communist Indochina." -Pol Pot


#38

China’s “Market Socialism” Died In The Early Stages.


#39

Say it with me now:

:clap: George :clap:Orwell :clap: was :clap: a :clap: communist :clap:


#40

1984 only looks like a terrible world because we view it through the first person perspective of Winston. Thing is Winston isn’t working class, he’s middle class. So of course life in a socialist state is going to suck for him.