Feminism : Equality or Female Supremacy


#1

A movement of equality they say , I am one to question that , nor am I alone I believe.

With women’s equality at a point where one can assume they are equal to me (feel free to dispute) , it becomes evident more issues lie within the male counterpart in terms of equality. Why you ask? Men under 30 are now earning less than women for the same work , there are huge double standards within society (chivalry , no man can lay his hand on a woman) , and in general , men have a structural disadvantage. Furthermore , we are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime, and commit suicide.
So , in the wake of such events and changes in the demographics, in the name of equality , feminism should have responded. They have not. Instead , they pursue ludicrous arguments to further their cause.

Although I am not going to say they caregorically want a matriarchal society (thats to stir it up a lil’) , it is obvious they pursue equality when it suits them .
As after all , the basis of feminism is pursuing equality by purely focusing on one of the sexes.
-Elliot
Egalitarian


#2

Feminism at its core is about the destruction of a patriarchal society. This helps to achieve equality however it is not (from my interpretation of feminism) the central goal.

Also I am an feminist and an egalitarian please let’s stop the MRAs hijacking this term.


#3

I am all for gender equality but it seems as if so many feminists (not all) think males are some kind of despicable people and we are the sole cause of the problem.


#4

Well then , surely feminism should be all but dead , we live in a plutarchy and meritocracy , not a patriarchy .


#5

*be dead


#6

Feminists strive for equality of outcome, not opportunity, despite what many of them may try to explain. This alone prevents me from supporting their movement in any way


#7

[QUOTE=“John Optegrove, post: 233475, member: 1254”]Feminists strive for equality of outcome, not opportunity, despite what many of them may try to explain. This alone prevents me from supporting their movement in any way[/QUOTE]

Please explain this further.


#8

Constantly pointing to “x percentage of females are in profession y”, for instance. The gender gaps have vastly improved since first- and second-wave feminism, and I see no reason for the destruction of an alleged patriarchy to be necessary for the trend to continue.


#9

Oh there are some feminists with some fucked up idea of equality, have you seen Tumblr? But the actual movement is designed to promote equality. Those double standards are the worst, and feminism to me strives to destroy those forms of sexism too.

I’ve often debated with myself if I should use the term Feminist or if I should stick with a broarder term, such as Egalitarian. I think both work fine, and Egalitarian pretty much includes Feminsim anyway.


#10

I’d only ever consider myself a feminist in the same way Camile Paglia is a feminist. Contemporary feminism has gone completely off the rails, is intellectually dishonest in many ways and promotes its own sanitised version of bigotry.


#11

I support feminist equality and that men and women should be paid the same for doing the same job. Some feminists take it too far though when they say"other there should be this % of women in politics" and so on. What happens then is you don’t get the best people for the job you just get tokens.


#12

So , in relation to equality of outcome , what are your opinions on the job quotas where a certain percentage of the boardroom in top companies has to be made up of women ( in Germany I believe they have introduced a 25% quota).

In my opinion , it is a ridiculous distortion to the labour market , we have given equal if not more opportunity, and now we need to hold their hands further and give them top jobs!
Purely giving jobs on the basis of gender is not equality , the disparity occurs because less women choose to go into stem subjects or highly demanding top professsions . Ironically , the problem (I use that word loosely)does not lie within the oppressive make believe patriarchy. It is due to freedom of choice , few women want these jobs , lets not give those who would previously not have been good enough to get the job a free ride purely because of the structure of gender within a profession.

You don’t see job quotas to be a nurse for men because it’s a female dominated profession!


#13

We really don’t need more feminist threads…


#14

I cannot agree with an ideology when the most loud representatives keep calling me an aggressive, testosterone driven rapist.

Genders are not, have not been and will never be equal. We do require to provide role models for our society to function. However, in no term is one better than the other, and therefore all laws should be purely based on rationality and logic, and not gender prejudices. No gender identity shall be forced, but the one matching biological sex should be encouraged to keep on social progress (reproduction).

I don’t think there is a difference in salary, I attribute that to the fact that due to our role models, males often choose a worse but better paying job while women choose what they want to do.

I don’t think there is female oppression or objectifying, other than what females do to themselves. I think the whole beauty industry is solely driven by female ego.

I however think that rape and abuse is a serious problem, and we should do everything to prevent them from happening. This applies to the not-as-highlighted issue of psychological abuse too, which is often committed by women, and males are too ashamed to seek help.

And the last thing:
I think men should be able to request abortion instead of being forced into paying child care if a female lures them into condomless sex with lies of birth control. I think women should also be held responsible for drunken, consensual sex. And I think that any rape case should be bound to secrecy until evidence is provided / found to defend the accused from the media in case of a false accusation.


#15

[QUOTE=“Medvekoma, post: 233547, member: 1394”]I cannot agree with an ideology when the most loud representatives keep calling me an aggressive, testosterone driven rapist.

Genders are not, have not been and will never be equal. We do require to provide role models for our society to function. However, in no term is one better than the other, and therefore all laws should be purely based on rationality and logic, and not gender prejudices. No gender identity shall be forced, but the one matching biological sex should be encouraged to keep on social progress (reproduction).

I don’t think there is a difference in salary, I attribute that to the fact that due to our role models, males often choose a worse but better paying job while women choose what they want to do.

I don’t think there is female oppression or objectifying, other than what females do to themselves. I think the whole beauty industry is solely driven by female ego.

I however think that rape and abuse is a serious problem, and we should do everything to prevent them from happening. This applies to the not-as-highlighted issue of psychological abuse too, which is often committed by women, and males are too ashamed to seek help.

And the last thing:
I think men should be able to request abortion instead of being forced into paying child care if a female lures them into condomless sex with lies of birth control. I think women should also be held responsible for drunken, consensual sex. And I think that any rape case should be bound to secrecy until evidence is provided / found to defend the accused from the media in case of a false accusation.[/QUOTE]
I must say I agree with most of this, and that it’s a good stance to have on the topic.

Feminism is overused, abused and poisoned to the point where anyone defending it is looked down upon, which says a lot on how bad it really is. When you fight for equality, it won’t help using an ideology most people relate to the feminazis that are very apparent in media and elsewhere. Sure, you could argue for trying to clean up misconceptions of it (much like say, communists do, since most people don’t [I]really[/I] know what it is), but wouldn’t it be better to just use another name, or simply not label yourself as anything?
In my case, I treat people equally since I don’t see any need to differentiate behaviour depending on race, sex, etc. I don’t really [I]need[/I] a label to do this. After all, actions speak louder than words.


#16

[QUOTE=“Alexandra the Great, post: 233559, member: 2790”]I must say I agree with most of this, and that it’s a good stance to have on the topic.

Feminism is overused, abused and poisoned to the point where anyone defending it is looked down upon, which says a lot on how bad it really is. When you fight for equality, it won’t help using an ideology most people relate to the feminazis that are very apparent in media and elsewhere. Sure, you could argue for trying to clean up misconceptions of it (much like say, communists do, since most people don’t [I]really[/I] know what it is), but wouldn’t it be better to just use another name, or simply not label yourself as anything?
In my case, I treat people equally since I don’t see any need to differentiate behaviour depending on race, sex, etc. I don’t really [I]need[/I] a label to do this. After all, actions speak louder than words.[/QUOTE]

And that is why I have chosen to completely abandon the term ‘feminist’ and distance myself from the ideology. If I’d have to call myself something, it would be egalitarian or ‘equalist’.


#17

To clarify my views on the matter:
I do not think most feminists support misandry by any means. I do, however, reject the mainstream feminist movement as it only seems to focus on the women’s side of issues, and I also think what is progressively becoming more and more mainstream feminism uses faulty statistics to justify their views, like the imaginary pay gap, and much of the movement operates from the assumption that women are massively worse offt han maen in the western world. Some radical feminists are misandrists, and benevolent sexism towards women is rarely tackled by feminists, furthering my rejection of the movement. I don’t care if the definition of feminism is gender equality, because the definition doesn’t count for anything, what matters is the real world implications of feminist movements. I have a very high level of respect for some feminists, I just personally do not agree with some of the core beliefs of the current movement. The most successful person I know is a woman, and she is vehemently opposed to modern feminism, believing, as I do, it operates on some flawed assumptions, and that market forces and the like are actually a good way of sorting things out

@oli[/USER] [USER=2562]@TheLlama[/USER] and [USER=965]@AndWhyNot may be interested in this


#18

[QUOTE=“Plopern, post: 233581, member: 265”]To clarify my views on the matter:
I do not think most feminists support misandry by any means. I do, however, reject the mainstream feminist movement as it only seems to focus on the women’s side of issues, and I also think what is progressively becoming more and more mainstream feminism uses faulty statistics to justify their views, like the imaginary pay gap, and much of the movement operates from the assumption that women are massively worse offt han maen in the western world. Some radical feminists are misandrists, and benevolent sexism towards women is rarely tackled by feminists, furthering my rejection of the movement. I don’t care if the definition of feminism is gender equality, because the definition doesn’t count for anything, what matters is the real world implications of feminist movements. I have a very high level of respect for some feminists, I just personally do not agree with some of the core beliefs of the current movement. The most successful person I know is a woman, and she is vehemently opposed to modern feminism, believing, as I do, it operates on some flawed assumptions, and that market forces and the like are actually a good way of sorting things out

@oli[/USER] [USER=2562]@TheLlama[/USER] and [USER=965]@AndWhyNot may be interested in this[/QUOTE]

Would you consider yourself an egalitarian though? Feminists are bound to the totalitarian fallacy of ‘If you are not with us, you are against us!’, and that is what annoys me the most.


#19

[QUOTE=“Medvekoma, post: 233584, member: 1394”]Would you consider yourself an egalitarian though? Feminists are bound to the totalitarian fallacy of ‘If you are not with us, you are against us!’, and that is what annoys me the most.[/QUOTE]

I believe in equal [I]rights[/I], not equality as in a world with a 50/50 gender split on everything as that defies biology, I think there is a reasonable difference between men and women in several ways. Does that mean I’m egalitarian? I’m never sure


#20

[QUOTE=“Plopern, post: 233587, member: 265”]I believe in equal [I]rights[/I], not equality as in a world with a 50/50 gender split on everything as that defies biology, I think there is a reasonable difference between men and women in several ways. Does that mean I’m egalitarian? I’m never sure[/QUOTE]

I’m never sure either, but I think we both are. I believe that men and women are different for the sake of being able to build a better society. Like in the case of Lions.