Global Warming

First, I would like to start off with saying, that this debate is going to be on science. If you make any posts trying to ‘ridicule’ or ‘insult’ me, they will be completely ignored, unless if you have included some sort of argument. I understand that most of you are going to come in here and say ‘Not this again!’ which is fine, I don’t want you here anyways.

I figured out the solution to the one argument you all came up with months ago, I just haven’t wanted to post it here, because of the negative responses from the skeptics on this website. But, I have decided I can just ignore all of you, so I am going to.

So without a further ado, my argument against Maulds:

[LEFT]from heartland.org:[/LEFT]

[LEFT]Carbon Dioxide is such a small component of Earth’s atmosphere (380 ppmv) that the “slice” it represents in this chart is really only a “line” about 1/2 as thick as the line shown. Compared to former geologic times, Earth’s atmosphere is “CO2 impoverished.”[/LEFT]

[CENTER]http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/GWQuiz/image253.gif[/CENTER]

[LEFT]In the last 600 million years of Earth’s history only the Carboniferous Period and our present age, the Quaternary Period, have

witnessed CO2 levels less than 400 ppm, except during periods of glacial expansion during ice ages.[/LEFT]

[CENTER]http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/GWQuiz/image277.gif[/CENTER]

Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya – 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period).
Temperature after C.R. Scotese Climate History
CO2 after R.A. Berner, 2001 (GEOCARB III) http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/pdf_logo.gif
There has historically been much more CO2 in our atmosphere than exists today. For example:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/bullet_pin1.gifDuring the Jurassic Period (200 mya), average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.7 times higher than today.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/bullet_pin1.gifThe highest concentrations of CO2 during all of the Paleozoic Era occurred during the Cambrian Period, nearly 7000 ppm – about 18 times higher than today.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/bullet_pin1.gifThe Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period were the only geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today – 4400 ppm.
According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence Earth temperatures and global warming.

All this argument proves is that Carbon, isn’t the only contributing factor to climate; and as it says in the last sentence, that’s all it wanted to prove:

“Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence Earth temperatures and global warming.”

And they wasted their time, because we on the other side of the argument agree: There are and have been other contributing factors to climate change then CO2. Where we disagree, is that this warming trend is being driven by Carbon Dioxide. And we too have our own graphs to prove this:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/images/guide/Big%20Picture_Fact%201_temperature%20change.GIF

The first graph shows how the environment alone would be effecting temperature’s. The sun, sun spots, oceans, etc. And what the temperature is actually doing. The second graph includes human activity with carbon. And suddenly a correlation reappears. Humans are the only variable in the climate that have changed in the past 150 years. Therefore, they are the only possible cause in the current warming trend, but still, not the only possibility in other climate shifts.

As opposed to actually writing a post i’ll just refer you to what i posted in the previous global warming thread.

I couldn’t give a shit. The whole argument is basically about two groups of people calling each other wrong for believing/not believing.

The way i look at it is, if it’s hot, it’s hot. If it’s cold, it’s cold. Life goes on, there are more important things going on in this world than the fucking weather!

I couldn’t give a shit. The whole argument is basically about two groups of people calling each other wrong for believing/not believing.

The way i look at it is, if it’s hot, it’s hot. If it’s cold, it’s cold. Life goes on, there are more important things going on in this world than the fucking weather!

:homo:

I guess posts like this are being ignored lol well i know where i stand and thats that it is a big crock of shit, its nature doing what nature does

EDIT: can i just metion the scale on those graphs have been chosen very carefully to manipulate the data to what they what to present to people

[SIZE=2][quote=“Springsteen, post: 1089347”]As opposed to actually writing a post i’ll just refer you to what i posted in the previous global warming thread.[/quote]

So you don’t see how dangerous global warming is?

Well, let’s just take a look at what you said, then sha’ll we:

“The way i look at it is, if it’s hot, it’s hot. If it’s cold, it’s cold. Life goes on, there are more important things going on in this world than the fucking weather!”

So it’s just weather? Well, let’s remember things that weather has caused in the past: Katrina, tornados, droughts, dust bowls, the list goes on. Weather effects our life, in fact weather is one of the biggest contributing factors to the kinds of lives we live. And what effects weather? Climate. Hotter weather makes stronger hurricanes, like Katrina, why was it so devastating? Because we didn’t realize how strong it was going to be, it hit a patch of warm water right before the coast, and it suddenly grew drastically it to a much more monumental storm. Since the 1970’s hurricanes have become 100% more destructive.

I have found many many many more things a warmer climate will effect positively and negatively and compared them to show how global warming has and will drastically change our lifestyles if we don’t stop it now (sorry there is a lot–probably going to take more then one post)[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Agriculture (positive, things considered ‘good’):[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]There will be bumper crops in high latitude countries, such as Greenland and Canada. There will also be higher rice yields in northern china.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Could Some Win With Global Warming?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Note, each number is a source found in my evidence section:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Agriculture (negative, things considered bad.):[/SIZE]

SIZE=2 Grain harvest in china will decrease by 5 to 10% by 2030. (2) Africa will produce less then half of it’s current food production by 2020. (3) Tropical plant growth will slow. (4) Millions of regugees will be created, which will also cause economical and military problems, and estimated 50 million by 2010. (5) CO2 is turning sea water acidic causing coral reefs to dissolve (and bleaching from warmer water). (6) Wildfire activity will increase. (7) Water shortages in the Mediterranean, flash floods along the Rhine and summers so hot that nuclear power stations can’t cool down, more than half of Europe’s plant species could risk extinction by 2080 (from eu paper). (8) Severity of crop disease will also increase. (9) domestic livestock won’t be able to graze in rangelands, due to encroachment of shrubs into grasslands. (10) fresh water supplies for decreasing for (10) coastal communities , (11)the Colorado Basic, (12) and the Murray-Darling Basin. (13) Decrease in all over water supply, increase in fire frequency, ecosystem change and destabilization, and expanded deserts. [/SIZE]

SIZE=2Global warming to decimate China’s harvests[/SIZE]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]Reuters AlertNet - AFRICA: Food production to halve by 2020[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.duke.edu/~feeley/feeley.etal.2007.decelerating%20tree%20growth.pdf[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]http://localhost/globalwarming/Climate%20change%20and%20the%20fight%20for%20resources%20%27will%20set%20world%20aflame%27[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Global warming may uproot millions | csmonitor.com[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]CO2 hurts reef growth[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/313/5789/940.pdf[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]StopGlobalWarming.org: EU paper shows options on warming Europe[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Global warming boosts crop disease[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/saltwatr.htm[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Carbon dioxide enrichment alters plant community structure and accelerates shrub growth in the shortgrass steppe — PNAS[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Warming may create substantial water supply shortages in the Colorado River basin[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Evidence of impacts from rising temperature on inflows to the Murray-Darling Basin[/SIZE]
[*][SIZE=2]http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]Health[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Positive:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Fewer deaths from cold exposure and r[/SIZE][SIZE=2]ecord profits for pharmaceutical companies[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Negative[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]
SIZE=2 Heat waves will cause more death (5.74% more deaths from heatwaves, compared to 1.59% less deaths from cold exposure). Malnutrition due to decrease in food (reasons in agriculture segment) causing more disorders, and problems in child growth and development. Heat waves, floods, storms, fires, and droughts will cause more deaths, disease, and injury. (16) Malaria will spread to wider regions. Higher concentrations of ground level ozone will increase the amount of cardo-respiratory disease. (17) Spread of miqutious will and dengeu fever in singapore, and (18) dengeu fever in Americas. (19)Increased pollen levels (from more CO2 in atmosphere) will increase allergies and make them more severe. (20) the flesh eating disease will spread. (21) even more heart problems.[/SIZE]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]Global warming will increase world death rate - environment - 28 June 2007 - New Scientist[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]New Worries about Climate Change-Induced Spread of Infectious Diseases : TreeHugger[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]The New York Times > Log In[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Climate change spurring dengue rise, says study[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Allergies Getting Worse Due to Global Warming | LiveScience[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Flesh-eating Disease Is On The Rise Due To Global Warming, Experts Warn[/SIZE]
[*][SIZE=2]Search - Global Edition - The New York Times[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

SIZE=2

      [B]Arctic Melt[/B]

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Positive
[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Shortcut for shipping will open up between Atlantic and Pacific. Much more access to Northern Oil, specifically in the north pole (hmm… good or bad?). Mammoth trade will thrive.
[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Negative
[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[*]SIZE=2 Warming will accelerate do to decrease in Arctic albedo. (22) Loss of 2/3 polar bear population within the next 50 years (estimated to happen even faster, only proof for it to be to this extent). Methane feedbacks from Mammoth Dung and (23) Methane Bubbling. Icebergs will increase, creating a risk to shipping. (24) Rising sea levels from melting of land ice, will cause flooding of coastal areas and displace millions.
[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]People’s Daily Online - Arctic thaw may be reaching ‘tipping point’[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Polar Bear Population Could Drop By 2/3 in 50 Years | Geology.com[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Study Reveals Lakes A Major Source Of Prehistoric Methane[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071026095001.htm[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]Environment

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The higher levels of dun and few rain clouds will create greener rain forests. In Greenland animals will be able to graze longer, that normally would have gotten less food to survive over the winter on. Grey Nurse sharks would be saved from extinction.
[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[][SIZE=2]Greener rainforests due to higher sunlight levels due to fewer rain clouds[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Animals in Greenland can graze longer[/SIZE]
[*][SIZE=2]Save grey nurse sharks from extinction[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2500311.ece[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://blog.thehill.com/2007/06/12/greenland-sees-global-warming-firsthand-rep-emanuel-cleaver/[/SIZE]
[*][SIZE=2]http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/23/2372015.htm[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]Environment

[/SIZE] SIZE=2 Rainforest’s will release more CO2 as regions become drier, forcing the environment to become warmer. (29) Even more refugees would come from areas encroached by deserts, tens of millions of them. (30) Arctic ponds drying (damage also done to the ecosystem) and (31) lakes are vanishing. (32) Tibetan plateau is warming at twice the global average, (33) so all the glaciers in central/eastern Himalayas could disappear before 2035.(34) Whales are losing weight. (35)Acidification of the ocean which is threatening ecosystems and doing (36) damage to coral reefs and killing plankton, which create 50 – 80% of our oxygen. (37) Shelfefish in Brittain threatened, they could go extinct. (38) Leeches are slowly going extinct. (39) Penguin numbers are decreasing. (40) A low-lying island country Tuvalu has basically disappeared do to sea rise. (41) New Zealend’s aquatic species are being deeply disrupted. (42) Oxygen poor waters in the ocean are expanding. (43) Mortalitly rates of healthy treats are increasing. Droughts are causing severe vegetation die-off.
[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]Climate change may help rainforests - Times Online[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Arctic Ponds Disappear Due to Global Warming, Scientists Say - Bloomberg.com[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Star-Telegram.com | News, Videos & Commentary about Fort Worth, Arlington, Dallas, Texas, Cowboys & more[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Tibet is warming at twice global average - environment - 24 July 2007 - New Scientist[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Flooded out - 05 June 1999 - New Scientist[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]A giant of the sea finds slimmer pickings - Gray whales are skinnier, and scientists suspect Arctic warming is the reason why - Los Angeles Times[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]CO2 emissions could violate EPA ocean-quality standards within decades - Carnegie Institution News[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.tos.org/oceanography/issues/issue_archive/issue_pdfs/20_2/20.2_caldeira.pdf[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Acid seas threaten to make British shellfish extinct - Times Online[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Home | Propeller[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]Antarctic penguin colony nears extinction - Climate Change- msnbc.com[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Islanders without an Island: What Will Become of Tuvalu’s Climate Refugees? - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International[/SIZE]
[][SIZE=2]http://www.ryanphotographic.com/Ryan_&_Ryan_2006_pp43-57.pdf[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-deadzone2-2008may02,0,1285619.story[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]Glacier Melt

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Positive
[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[*]SIZE=2There will be more access to mining in Greenland. (44) A new extreme sport, Glacier Surfing, when you ride waves when the chunks of glaciers fall into the sea, will be playable. (45) Sheep in Greenland will be able to graze for a longer period of time.[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[*][SIZE=2]Ben Muse: Global warming is reducing the costs of mining in Greenland[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[*][SIZE=2]Popular Science Blog - The Upside of Global Warming[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[*][SIZE=2]Global Warming Good for Greenland?
[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]

Negative

[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[*][SIZE=2]Low-lying asian rice fields are flooding. (47) Water supply for China & South America cut off.[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]AFP.com[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/chinas-water-supply-could-be-cut-off-as-tibets-glaciers-melt-451099.html[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]

Economical

[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[*][SIZE=2]Increase summer movie box office revenues to boost the economy. (49) More work and money for lawyers (I wasn’t sure if this was positive or negative… but the positive side really needs some help)
[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]Did Global Warming Aid 2007 Summer Movie Box Office? // Archives // ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/062507dnbusgreenlawyers.37f90e0.html[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[][SIZE=2]Increased summer movie box office[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]Lots of work and money for lawyers [/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=2]Negative

[/SIZE] SIZE=2There will be billions of dollars of damage to public infrastructure. (51)And a a reduced water supply to New Mexico will harm our economy.

[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[][SIZE=2]http://www.iser.uaa.alaska.edu/Publications/JuneICICLE.pdf[/SIZE]
[
][SIZE=2]http://www.unm.edu/~market/cgi-bin/archives/002347.html
[/SIZE]
[/LIST]

I’d respect your point of view more if the majority wasn’t copied and pasted.

That’s an argument I have heard before, but can you tell me what you believe is causing the earth naturally change, out of our control? The sun? Sun spots? Please do, and I can make a much better response.

[quote=“ConTRo13R, post: 1089348”]
EDIT: can i just metion the scale on those graphs have been chosen very carefully to manipulate the data to what they what to present to people[/quote]

Yes, even graphs from usually credibly sources such as MetOffice (a governmental site) can be wrong. Even without the graphs my argument still stands, as I can prove that specific natural variables in climate haven’t changed with this current warming trend.

Please, tell me, what natural variable do you think has changed with climate? Why?

The pos/neg one was gathered from different articles all over the web, and then copied into microsoft word, and then pasted in this debate, as well as a few others.

None of my other arguments thus far were simply copied and pasted.

And truly I don’t think it matters. It’s not a competitive debate were having, were having a debate to see if global warming is real or not, why does it matter where mine or your arguments come from.

[quote=“AbriannaPeto, post: 1089353”]

And truly I don’t think it matters. It’s not a competitive debate were having, were having a debate to see if global warming is real or not, why does it matter where mine or your arguments come from.[/quote]

Because its a goddamn debate, if you cant speak for yourself, dont fucking bother.

Well, I did speak from myself, I read through the story, then wrote a summary of what it was explaining in a sentence, then I copied a link to the website, and did it many more times until I had almost all the negative and positive effects of global warming.

Took me a long while.

And as for the arguments, I typed them up a few minutes ago.

You’ve already made a debate thread about this subject. Way to be an attention whore.

honestly, why debate it? you are not going to change anyones mind with your arguments. people will think how they want to no matter what. regardless of what info you show them, its up to THEM to make an informed decision. no one can dictate what information that they chose to read or listen to. when it comes to global warming you are either one side or the other there is no in between.

There are many bystanders that don’t talk or make posts who read these debates. Many people who don’t have a decision yet are on this website as well. Not only that, but it strengthens my own opinion. If 20 people are argueing against me bringing arguments from all over the place, and I can reflect all of them, I feel much better about global warming being real.

Just take it from a PM I recieved a little while back:

I trust you’re happy and well? I just wanted to send you a quick note to say thanks. I don’t know as much as I should about Global Warming. I’ve seen Gore’s film and plan on watching The Age of Stupid when time permits. Consequently, I really appreciate you taking the time to research and debate the topic in so much detail. It’s really helped me consume a lot of information on the topic in a highly readable and comprehensive way. I know you’re getting into a lot of back-and-forth with the members here, but I do hope that doesn’t prevent you from continuing.

Sums this thread up

Abrianna I wouldn’t put it past you to make up such claims.

the earth goes through natural warming and cooling periods

we can’t do anything about it

we are also contributing to it

end debate

[quote=“All Else Failed, post: 1089361”]the earth goes through natural warming and cooling periods

we can’t do anything about it

we are also contributing to it

end debate[/quote]
:homo: AEF shut this thread down!

Perhaps you could offer solutions for your everyday person on how to reduce their carbon footprint? Might be more helpful. I’d certainly be interested.

I find the amount of research you’ve done impressive, and very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

I find it a sad human failing that we tend to not take our actions on the environment seriously, and I’m included in this lot. Unfortunately we tend to act first, think later. I worry that the repercussions for this ignorance will be greater than we imagine.

As for the people who’ve shit all over her for this thread, I find your comments insulting and degrading. If you have something worthwhile to contribute to the debate, or a different viewpoint based on research, as she has done, then do so. Otherwise, keep your shitty comments to yourselves or in PM.

[quote=“satinbutterfly, post: 1089363”]Perhaps you could offer solutions for your everyday person on how to reduce their carbon footprint? Might be more helpful. I’d certainly be interested.

I find the amount of research you’ve done impressive, and very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

I find it a sad human failing that we tend to not take our actions on the environment seriously, and I’m included in this lot. Unfortunately we tend to act first, think later. I worry that the repercussions for this ignorance will be greater than we imagine.

As for the people who’ve shit all over her for this thread, I find your comments insulting and degrading. If you have something worthwhile to contribute to the debate, or a different viewpoint based on research, as she has done, then do so. Otherwise, keep your shitty comments to yourselves or in PM.[/quote]
If this wasn’t her second thread on the subject and i had not seen her biased one sided behavior in her previous thread, I may have responded differently.

I did it in a different thread simply because the other one was large, and it had gotten to messy. I thought a clean slate was in order.