How do you compassionately tell a supernatural believing person that they are borderline stupid?


#1

How do you compassionately tell a supernatural believing person that they are borderline stupid?

As you can see by my title, I do not know how.

Scriptures say that to correct is a sign of love. Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Most do not see it that way when on the receiving end of that love.

I see correction as love just as the scriptures do. How do you see it and how would you tell a supernatural believing person that they are borderline stupid?


#2

Well,

  1. I doubt you love most people you ‘correct’.
  2. You seem to think that your right, when in truth, you actually have no idea whether or not the other people are wrong. You are no better than religious zealots who claim anyone who doesn’t follow their religion is wrong. I myself am an atheist, but if people want to believe in God or the flying spaghetti monster, it doesn’t matter. Also imo, topics like these are really digressive if you’re trying to comment on like, horrible things done by religion, in which case you don’t insult people if you want to actually get something done. Just saying.

#3

Doubt all you like. It is no skin off my nose.

Do you believe in the supernatural?

It does to all the gays and women who have been victimized by the homophobia and misogyny that those beliefs create.

Seems you do not love them enough to try to rid society of the immoral influence of supernaturally based religions.


#4

I did say I was an atheist. So. I don’t. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist though, I just don’t think it does.

Well one read my name, I am gay. Yes religion has played a role in bigotry, but one who believes in religion does not have to be a bigot. You can believe in god and not follow every single word of the bible. Or you can believe in most of the bible and be okay with gay people. According to the bible we all sin, and yeah being LGBT is a stupid sin, but still, we all sin anyway. All the good catholics/christians i’ve met have had varying views on this, (and good as in those who aren’t zealots and crazy like “god is all and all is god, if your life isnt about god to hell you go” preacher types) but they’ve all been okay with LGBT people. And at the very least more and more people seem to be okay with LGBT people( at least here in America).
Also you seem to mistake what I meant by believe in. I don’t care of some christian neo-nazi believes jews are all evil, he’s wrong, but still. It’s not my belief. The problem comes when people like that decide to act on their beliefs. Religion has never been a bloodless sort of system, but plenty of people have been killed or oppressed for a plentitude of other reasons besides God or whoever else.
From the topics you’ve created and stuff, It seems like as if you think if religion was never created the world would have been a better place. I strongly disagree with that, basically for historical reasons, but also for the fact that we can’t ever know. People created religion in the first place. I don’t think god came to earth and told people to write the bible, nor do I think Siddartha Gautama really achieved nirvana and became a bodhisattva. However, they created it for a reason, why? We’ll never know, but it was created anyway. Men are physically superior to women in general, now imo that doesn’t make us unequal, but do you really think that without religion, this would have been any different? Maybe some groups would have turned out for the better, but thats a big maybe. Homosexuality is not really in the best interests for humanity, if the goal is to keep reproducing. Maybe homosexuality would be more accepted without religion, or maybe not? We won’t ever know. Maybe those who are transgender wouldn’t be so looked down upon, or maybe not. Again, we’ll never know. If you can’t tell, religions seem to evolve with the thoughts of the people, or they die out. If religion was this ever controlling being, then people wouldn’t have become progressive in these areas. Now more and more religious groups are calling for toleration for the LGBT community and for equality between women and men. Yes many of course don’t, but do you really think that they’ll outlive those who do? Hell the mormons had to change their religion in like mid-1800’s in order to conform to societal standards(I’m pretty sure they wanted to form their own state and become part of the union). Point is, attacking religious people doesn’t solve anything. There are plenty of ‘gays and women’ who are religious. You can try to act as if your superior because you don’t believe, but it doesn’t change anything. People like you won’t get anything done, besides being regressive.


#5

Why do you need to tell a person they are stupid? I disagree with virtually everyone here on religion and faith, it doesn’t mean I think they’re idiots or stupid. Also, there is a difference between attacking someone and attacking their arguments/beliefs. I respect those who attack and debate my arguments, even more so if they can do it without attacking me personally. Most manage, and as a result I do not have 1 person that I consider an enemy, here or anywhere.

The Lord loves he whom he correct. The Lord does. You are superimposing yourself into the Lord’s position. If you think people are going to love you when you call them stupid, you are in for disappointment.

As @thegaydespot has pointed out, you assume that you are correct, when there is every reason to believe that you are wrong. Certainly many of your Scriptural claims are at best heretical.

I am a Christian, and because of this, I make objective and exclusive claims about life, death and the universe. Obviously, I believe that non Christians are wrong about certain truth claims. This is not the same as thinking that they are stupid, and telling them so. There are many atheists for example who are smarter, better and more loving people than I could ever be. But I do not see the need to call them stupid, nor in fact do I believe them to be stupid. I just cannot understand why you see the need to identify people with whom you disagree as stupid.


#6

You don’t need religion to be a homophobe or a misogynist. And one does not become one simply by being religious, I am not either. I believe that women are inherently equal, and I accept homosexuals. Yes, religion has been responsible for atrocities, but if you honestly believe that ridding the world of religion will make the world a better place, I fear for the world.


#7

Yet it is because of people like me, that brought Christianity to heel, that you can walk the streets.

Gays, and especially women, are the longest running victims of religious homophobia and misogyny.

You go ahead and give supernatural based religions worth if you like, but do not tell me that it is good for any of us to believe all their lies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.


#8

If I am to be honest, I must tell the truth.

But you have a point, and that is why I wrote the request into the O.P.

Thanks for not being able to suggest a better way.

That shows how I may have to continue as I have.

Stupid is as stupid does. Stop thinking in a stupid way.


#9

Secular law is way superior than your religious law.

If you lived by your religious law you would be demanding it’s elimination.

Are you ready to stone your unruly son for your imaginary God?


#10

And how have you (and ‘people like you’)brought christianity to heel if its such a problem in your opinion? Don’t presume to put yourself on top of some moral pedestal. Has secularism helped to progress religion? Yes it has, but it hasn’t eradicated religion. Secularism has just made those who have a good heart realize that those who are hateful are wrong. Einstein was a pantheist, Newton had his disagreements with orthodoxy and catholicism, but he himself still believed in God. I’d like to see you call either of those two ‘stupid’. Believing in the supernatural does not equal stupidity. But attacking people for their beliefs is stupid. Again, you are no better than zealots who hate on anyone who isn’t them and attack anyone who isn’t them. Secular bigotry isn’t better than Religious bigotry. Your presumption of intelligence makes you look like a foolish narcissist. People like you only help to fuel hate on both sides, its those people who actually care that make change. Many times people who are deeply religious try to tell us atheists that we are stupid and idiotic, and now you are telling religious people they’re stupid and idiotic. Like you tried to use against @owainp , “Stupid is as stupid does. Stop thinking in a stupid way.”


#11

Yes it does, IMO.

Where those who fought against Hitler and his beliefs wrong to do so?

Is reciprocity fair play where you live?

Why are you showing respect for a religion that has abused your type for centuries and preach that a genocidal son murdering prick of a God should be adored?


#12
  1. I love how you ignored the topic of Newton and Einstein.
  1. Wow taken out of context much? You knew I meant people with religious beliefs, but hey, resort to tactics like that. You really give yourself credibility here. Also it’s ‘Were’ not ‘Where’ since we’re being petty and using underhanded tactics.

  2. I just think that for someone who seems to think they have moral superiority, you seem to take the low road when it comes to actually being ‘moral’.
    And I don’t ‘respect’ Christianity or Islam or any religion. If you actually look at history, religion has been a source of hope for many who were in shitty situations, like basically all peasants since the beginning of class divisions. I also do think that religion has helped to actually to create moral standards, but that is untestable because we can’t go back to the beginning of human evolution. Acknowledging religion’s role in shaping the world is not respect, just recognition. Yes religion has done a lot of atrocities, but most crimes today aren’t done for religious reasons. And I do think that without religion, a bunch of crazy people would think it’s okay to do whatever they please. I do at times find people who adhere to them to make hypocritical statements or hold hypocritical beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I try to attack the individual. Calling out hypocrisies is one thing. Blatantly stating someone is stupid for believing in the supernatural is another. You’re acting like those zealots you think are stupid, and like you said “Stupid is as Stupid does.”


#13

Think Jihad and think again for the first time.

As to the hope of the peasants. Did the Cathar peasants have their own hopes before the Inquisitors destroyed them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4

So you think that belief in the supernatural is intelligent, do you?

Indeed, and belief in the supernatural is just that.


#14

You complain of my skipping some of what you say while you skipped that simple question.

Seems you do not think that reciprocity is fair play.


#15

Is jihad most crime? I don’t seem to recall any information that most people who murder/steal/rape are doing so in the name of Jihad. Hmm. I’d like to see your sources on how Jihad is the reason why most people commit crimes. And according to adl.org from 2007-2016 most extremist-related deaths were due to right wing extremism. Sooooo. And thats just extremism related. I wonder what would happen if we looked at all crime statistics, maybe theres a correspondence between high crime rate and jihad?
Also wow a tiny segment of peasants. Again no-one here has argued that religion hasn’t committed atrocities! But most peasants looked to religion for hope. They may have not like priests or the pope or whatever, but they still believed in a God. That small segment that got destroyed doesn’t erase the fact that millions looked to the church/the bible/just God himself, for hope. You can’t erase centuries of evidence just because one group got screwed over, that isn’t how that works.
And I don’t believe in that belief in the supernatural equals stupidity. It may not be ‘intelligent’ but it doesn’t signal stupidity.
Also I didn’t skip your question. In part three, the first sentence is my response. This isn’t some elementary school argument where when one kid calls you stupid you call them stupid back. You’re trying to put yourself on a moral pedestal and act as if your superior to those who believe in the supernatural. So my response is that for someone who seems to think that they’re on moral high-ground, you’re actually pretty low by acting like those you describe are hateful. Pretty hypocritical tbh. You did however never respond to Einstein being pantheist and Newton believing in God. I’m sure if I wanted to I could find more and more evidence that intelligent people have believe in/do believe in some form of supernatural belief. I’m pretty sure copernicus was christian also. So I did respond to your question, but you still haven’t responded to mine.


#16

And those right-wingers weren’t doing it for ‘God’. They were mostly either anti-government or racist, so.


#17

And you couldn’t walk the streets before? You claim way too much credit, and Christianity has itself to blame for its current status, not “people like you.”

I don’t think Jesus would recognise you, to be honest. Your Jesus is not the Jesus of the New Testament, he is a figment of your imagination.

A better way is to not call people stupid. You say that Jesus would recognise his people by their deeds. Yet Jesus did not go around calling people stupid just because he disagreed with them.

Pray tell where this incredible “secular law” came from?

Ummm no, I wouldn’t. Besides, I live not by law but by grace.

Are you actually joking? Please tell me you are.


#18

How big of a segment must die at the hands of Inquisitors and Jihadists before you recognize that religions, especially Christianity and Islam mare garbage?

I agree but do not want to attribute it to a high level of gullibility.

So do try to answer the original question please.

I do not want to end with what I put above nor what this link ends with.

Eh, no.

Morality is not choosing to adore a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Un-Intelligence I have applied stupid beliefs in the supernatural. You are the one conflating issues.

As to your old scientists, you ignore that the church was killing scientists who did not agree with them and the huge majority of modern scientists are not theists.


#19

In a sense. So is yours. I can show the good moral tenets of mine. You cannot show that for your version. That is why you run from moral discussions.

He had a brighter audience than the present day bunch of brain dead idol worshiping theists.

I agree, hence my O.P.

Not from your biblical law. It came from more intelligent and moral people than what was around 2 or 3 thousand years ago.

I see that you are not complaining or advocating for your biblical law.

An honest man would just have agreed. That is not you.


#20

Again, I’m not defending atrocities of these religions, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t contributed to people’s lives. You seem to not have the ability to separate your personal beliefs of something from what that something actually is/has done. Yes religion has done bad things, but not all adherents to religion are bad, most people who believe in the supernatural aren’t bad. I have friends who aren’t christian or muslim but still believe in ghosts, and they have the best grades, score the best on tests(and these are AP classes, not regular classes) and can actually hold themselves in a discussion. I wouldn’t dare to actually call them stupid, because they are not. Point is adherence to religion doesn’t make you a bad person. Actually morality itself is subjective, there is no definite morality, unless you believe in some being who gave you that morality? Otherwise your personal beliefs are your own and your morals don’t have to equate to someone else’s morals. As long as people obey the laws idc what they believe or not, that’s up to them, but I would never presume their intelligence to be on the lower scale just because they’re religious.

?? The basis of this whole discussion is that you think supernatural believing people are stupid. So I don’t get what you’re trying to say here, it makes no sense. I said that believing in the supernatural isn’t intelligent but it isn’t stupid.

Also, ehhhhhh yes. It is stuck-up of you to act as if you’re better when you’re not. As I said above morality is subjective, unless you believe in some sort of higher being who gave you those morals? Otherwise as an atheist you’d have to agree people can pick and choose what ideas fit their ‘morality’. Otherwise we must have gotten these morals somewhere? And don’t say some stupid crap like ‘natural kindness’ because we all know there are plenty of kids who have done screwed up things like ripping off butterfly wings or harming animals.
Also Old scientists? Einstein was WWII, Newton was Late 17th century(which is kinda old). Yeah copernicus was during that time(Edit:By that time i mean the church murdering scientists time), but the church wasn’t murdering scientists by Newton and certainly not by Einstein. MIght they discommunicate? Yeah, but they weren’t murdering. Did they do awful stuff? Yeah they did, again, I haven’t argued that religion hasn’t done bad stuff. My point is, that for you to call people who believe in the supernatural stupid just because you don’t believe is pretentious. Also a source for your claim would be nice, because I literally just found a huffpost article(and everyone knows huffpost is very liberal and liberals tend to be more atheistic) in like 2 secs that says 51% of scientists are some sort of theists(according to pew research). Sooooooooooooooo. Unless you want to say half of scientists in america that they are stupid? Because i’m sure that’ll go down smoothly.