Islam’s ideology is immoral to its core - should we declare war against it?


#21

All I can say is that I agree that Islam’s ideology is immoral and wrong and downright evil however declaring war on it would be stupid. There are 1.6 billion muslims and we live in a world driven by PC culture and ignorance. We couldn’t get enough people to agree with us to start a war. What we need to start doing is raising awareness. Enough of this “religion of peace” bullshit and this stupid idea that the things terrorists do are due to radicalism. That’s where it starts.


#22

It is hardly a free world if we are ruling someone’s beliefs, spiritual ideology and their culture to be less than our own and thus we must destroy it.

Who are we to judge, any religion has had some extremist in the past. Just look at Christianity, for example, should we base the entirety of Christians on the members of the Westboro Baptist Church (for those who don’t know of this church go to - http://godhatesfags.com/ - yes that’s a real site…)

Everyone is flawed, if it is the majority are judging then CHristian’s shall be judging as the largest religions, yet a Christian teaching is “He who is without [any] sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her” - so there you go.


#23

Theres a few dozen of those baptists. The KKK is dead with a few thousand. Islam has millions of Extremists. Its proven by pew reports.

But who are we to judge when they havent killed anyone and Muslim extremists are beheading people. The Baptists didnt shoot up the Night Club of innocent gays in my country it was them! Wake up to reality here that saying you respect the beliefs of someone who wants to enforce their religion upon you. If you like your culture and country then you got to defend them.

So here are a few facts…

In nearly 40 Muslim Countries a majority of Muslims supported making Sharia law the offical law of the land. But lets go to Europe, in Russia over 40% of Muslims supportmaking Sharia law the offical law of the land! Yes Sharia law.

Its not a slim minority. In many areas its a majority of the world its a majority. Even in supposively Moderate Muslim countries.

Don’t give the all religions are the same bs. Thats like saying all Ideologies are the same. Statistics prove this. Your opinion is uninformed.


#24

Look again for the first time.

African witches and Jesus

As to Islam’s core beliefs.

Seems that their ideology has screwed up the majority.


#25

By using the law of the land.

So you think children brides forced to endure FGM makes them feel free. Ok.


#26

Indeed.

Islam wants to retain it’s evil ideology.


#27

There is quite the difference between the Amish ideology and the Muslim one.

The Amish do not tend to hate all those who are not Amish. Muslims hate all who are not Muslim if they are of the retarded right wing. The few Muslims progressives are more civilized.

As to the standard of morality used, I would look to secular ideologies as their laws have already bested anything that the religions have come up with.


#28

So you think that when the government moved against the Branch Dravidians or force Christians to bake wedding cakes for gays, they are violating a basic human right to discriminate without a just cause against people when the government says they are just normal citizens. So you are promoting more discrimination than the law of the land does.

I do not agree.


#29

Yet I did and you decided to ignore it.


#30

Good work above but this got me to wonder.

Do you know when Christian nations actually stopped making being gay a crime?

On equality. Do you know when Christian countries gave women the right to vote?

I agree that Islam is not as progressive as Christianity was forced to be by the secular governments but Christianity, even today, is a homophobic and misogynous religion that is mired in the past.


#31

Not if the world court or the U.N. declare it to be an immoral construct.

Further. Individual countries are presently taking action against Islam and Sharia to the point of banning their practice.

Regards
DL


#32

Beliefs cannot be ruled but the actions of immoral beliefs can. That is what more and more countries are doing.

Who are you not to judge?

Do you not have the mental capability?

Are you not your brothers keeper?

Would you let a murderer walk away so easily or would you throw a stone?


#33

On gays that was condemned as an immoral behavior, though the real question is when did it start? There is alot of history behide that.

Which christian nations? We have not been voting for that long.

I am saying many western secular ideals orginated within christian diest natural philosophy.

I agree that Islam could be seen as a political movement masked as a religion. They do pray facing Mecca 5 times a day.

What I was noting is that as a relativist your moral views dont have any more basis than theres by relativist standards. But then again if we both agree then does that really matter? I dont think so, so all have our reasons.

Though I agree of its more or less incompatibility with collective western values. I am cautious about a secular government going after a “religious” group. In the United States the US government at one time saw my religion as a threat and tried to wipe us out in various states early on. When we in fact are mostly extremely devout to western values and high moral standards, with high standards of tolerance as well for those of lower values.

So I do agree that Western civilization is worth protecting so therefore such actions are warrented.(and thats not even bringing up secruity reasons. It is not out of hate but rather necessity. If they will not accept our ways then they will try to change them to their own. With such high birthrates if enough came in they form a micronation and within a few generations many Euro nations will be changed from within by the refusal of assimilation.)

So if a group does not assimilate then we should think carefully how many we wish to allow in our borders.


Therefore your argument checks out with me more or less. (except I think Christianity is not equal to Islam, not in history and not today. One was founded by a violent warlord with a 6 year old wife and the other by a pacifist carpenter.)

And christianity will continue to advance. Along with the fact the 40k self proclaimed christian sects keep them mainly decentralized.

Islam has much fewer sects with leaders that are both political and spiritual to them. A dangerous combo. The ideal of Jihad is not a hard ideal for them to propogate against christians and western culture.
The word crusade is not in the bible, only the Catholics came up with that concept because the Pope was afraid of being conquered by Muslims.(and likely wanted more land, wealth ect. I dont sugar coat catholic history but they atleast made sure we are not all muslims speaking arabic today.)


#34

I think I can agree with you from a certain POV.

I used the word freedom even while knowing that freedom for us, the weakest animal on the planet, is quite a foolish notion.

As Socrates said of free men, who will make your shoes. IOW, we are all dependent on each other.

I should use the word liberty more than freedom as it is a lot more accurate.

You are the first who has been astute enough to spot that error. I guess that most others are misusing the word the same way I did.

Regards
DL


#35

I am more concerned with when it will end. We cannot do anything about the discrimination without a just cause in the past but can do something for those still being discriminated against unfairly by the mainstream religions.

There is a lot of history for sure but if read as given, even Jesus would have been ostracized. Technically, Jesus was female. So says this scholar.

Start it at the 20 min. mark if you are pressed for time.

That was my point vis-a-vis equality in the mainstream religions.

Which they plagiarized from older and better traditions. No one is pushing for Judeo Christian biblical law to be the law of the land because we all know that secular law has already bested anything the religions have developed.

Only if you ignore Yahweh, a genocidal son murderer.

That pacifist Roman ass kissing Jesus, to me, is a Roman invention.

Interesting views. Thanks.


#36

It may never end as long as people hold onto to certain ideals which cause them to live certain lifestyles. Will Amish people ever drive cars? I dont know the answer to that question. Maybe one day, maybe today.

Sorry if I dont respect a Feminist conferences uneducated humourous mocking of religion.

There is very deep theology on that subject as you should know.

The only ‘Christian’ theocratic nation on earth that I know of currently is Vatican city, which was the papal states in the past.

And they could not have plagiarized certain ideals that orginated within themselves in the west. Nor is there such thing as christian law since all law is secular unless you operate under a theocracy. All good secular governments owe it to the ethics of religious institutions.

Secular laws in the Soviet Union and many other communist nations that murdered countless millions and repressed billions surely did not orginate in anything but that strain of western secular thought.


Son murderer? The people or Romans murdered Christ not god. Yahweh was perfectly Just by objective moral standards in christian tradition. He is their moral law maker, who cannot be brought down to a human level but is rather above that. Murder is unlawful or unjustifed killing. Christ fufilled the law and justified mercy toward all mankind. Hence why he is thought of very kindly by christians. lol

Can you not get it through your head that not all ideals are equal or has relativism really blinded you to even the most simple truths.(since it can reach the point where there is no truth, thus eatting itself.)

Basically your idealism is “All ideas are equally bad, except for mine.” that is simply a delusion of sorts held by to many.


#37

Declaring war against an idea system only tends to reinforce it. The disparity between Islamic sects will evaporate once we make it clear that Islam is the enemy. The ‘master status’ of every Shiite, Shia and Wahhabi will become ‘Muslim’. There is a real risk that they will focus on their similarities rather than their differences in such a circumstance.
I would advise doing nothing. The ideology is fissile, as Christianity and Judaism were - soon, they will be so divided and fractured that the word ‘Islam’ ceases to refer to any homogenous group. ‘Islam’ will cease to be a threat. It will also make it easier to label terrorists without making it look like ‘Islamophobia’ (whatever bullshit that’s supposed to mean).


#38

What if it continues to grow in strength and violence from our innaction? We got to stop acting like we are dealing with Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or any other ism and realize that we are dealing with Islam. What evidence do you have to prove they will soon be fractured?

Lastly Islamophobia is a buzzword, nothing more.


#39

All we can know about what is going to happen with Islam is what we can infer from what happened to previous similar ideologies. If Islam is somehow qualitatively different from other religions, then we don’t have a clue about what we should be doing. However, there is good reason to suspect that the progress of Islam will be similar to the progress of other religions. These are similarities in doctrine, in patterns of application of said doctrine and in believer’s views about said doctrine.
If Islam continues to grow (which I severely doubt will happen because of USA foreign policy) then it’s possible it may replace Christianity as the main religion. In which case the arguments that atheists and secularists currently have with Christians will be had with Muslims, and nothing much else will change.
The key thing to understand is that ISIS is to Islam what the WBC is to Christianity. Their interpretations of their religion are technically correct, but ignored by the mainstream because of the effects of their enforcement. Whilst its true that Islam rides roughshod over the Middle East, this is only because the Enlightenment didn’t happen over there (and still hasn’t, due to the language barrier and Islam’s reluctance to accept new information). The Enlightenment and its legacy will protect the Western nations from the form of Islam that is currently accepted in the Middle East.
But if everything I’ve said is wrong, and Islam is genuinely a threat, how are we supposed to know? Islam looks, sounds and reacts like the early phases of the other Abrahamic religions. Also, if we think Islam is a threat and eliminate it and we’re wrong, we’ve just massacred a whole bunch of innocents. If we assume Islam is safe and we’re wrong, we’ll know before any real damage is done because any offensive moves will be reported via the Internet. There is no risk to waiting and observing. Therefore, do nothing.


#40

So you agree it is best though to simply stay apart then?

Since it is an unknown and you are right about the enlightenment part. Also if Islam is like the early phrases of other Abrahamic religions, then we should be cautious.

The risk in waiting is that ISIS ideology will gain strength because obviously it seems like there is a large group within Muslim majority nations that agree with Sharia law. Basically there is someone who beheads and someone else who quietly cheers it. However it is not as rare as we think, certain nations are breeding grounds for it. When powerful enough they always seize power through armed force.(except if you count the Muslim Brotherhood being elected, but that depends on your view of them as well.)

In fact within decades there will be more Muslims than christians worldwide for sure simply due to birthrates and that they dont really leave.(otherwise your family may literally Honor kill you in the middle east, or throw acid on your face ect.)

I do hope people will defend the Wests Legacy, even with its flaws we do not want to go culturally back to to dark ages Saudi Arabia.

And how do we know? Well, its hard not to notice the worldwide terror attacks, they happen daily in the middle east just the western media doesnt care. They have to be always recruiting rapidly otherwise their ranks would implode into nothing(pun intended). Now has this refugee crisis been caused on purpose by them simply as a means to sneak sleeper cells in to attempt to instigate a war that they believe they are divinely destined to win?

That the WBC is the only thing we have to compare them just shows how incomparable it really is when it comes to extremes. If only ISIS acted like WBC because then hundreds of thousands wouldnt have been murdered in the past years. And millions turned into refugees.