Islam’s ideology is immoral to its core - should we declare war against it?


Intelligent and moral people. In your country, it is those who vote in a government which sets moral laws in place for those who do not know how to act without guidance. Laws are made to keep the dishonest or immoral in line. The intelligent and moral people do not need them.

I am promoting a war of words and not killing, but all of us act on our beliefs and that is why Muslim intolerance of others is ending up in the type of situation shown in this link, where countries are wanting to expel them.

I was clear above but if you cannot get it, repeating it would be useless, so why don’t you articulate what you think the first duty of a free man is.


Indeed. Secular governments had to bring Christianity to heel and we will have to do the same with Islam.


Size scares you into inaction does it?

Cowards die many deaths while the brave only die once.


It is not just a middle east Muslim problem. It is a world wide Muslim problem.

Note in this link as to how those who have been immersed into the Western culture for years are still trying to change it instead of it changing them and all they are earning is ejection. As it should be.

Many countries are now tightening the screws and actively working against Islam.


Ask your wife and children if they prefer the Western ideology or if they would prefer to live in Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim majority country.

Remember that Muslims are immigrating west and westerners are certainly not immigrating to Muslim majority nations.

If we are not better, they would not be heading our way.


I have the right because my forefathers died to give it to me.

I have many cultures and moral systems to examine and choose from and can decide which I think superior.

Why is it that you cannot do the same?


Well put.

Consider that across all ideologies, about 70% share a commonality of morality that is based on what has become the Western model.

FMPOV, if we do not push to bring the other 30% to heel, (mostly Muslims), then we as free people are shirking our first duty which is to bring that freedom to all.

Here is where that stat comes from.


I see that as an exaggeration. That aside.

In Saudi Arabia, they definitely educate their women but those women have to have a man drive them to school as they are not allowed to drive themselves.

Would you like your female children and wife to be so hobbled?

That is a rhetorical question that does not need an answer.


You may be handicapped and unable to judge cultural values but most of us make many judgements on ours and others daily. Judging our own systems and ideology is how we have improved them.


No one is advocating that. I advocate a war of words.

Are you saying that all those Muslims would ignore good advice, in terms of a better way of doing things and living, if it was shown to be better?


Easy. You think about the issue and come to a conclusion. Are you game to try?

For instance. Islam wants to outlaw criticism and insult to it’s religion.

Do you support that idea and are you ready to apply the same restriction to Islam as to it criticizing or insulting other religions?

This is basically applying the golden rule of doing unto others.

This would mean that Islam would have to scrap it’s jizya tax policy.

Do you think Muslims are ready to scrap that tradition and give all other religions their own status?


No argument on this. It is a truth that both Christianity and Islam have grown themselves by the sword instead of by good deeds.

Strange that religions of peace have used war to grow themselves.


Just for your files my friend.


"In countries such as Sudan, Somalia and Egypt up to 98% of females have been mutilated, but the practice happens in 28 countries in Africa and some countries in Asia and the Middle East. " This open happens in the west when it is imported from the east.

That is terrible. I was unaware it was that bad. I’m glad we both possess a logical bone in our body to see that society not regress, and look forward to humanities advancement.


I wouldn’t say that Western Civilization is inherently better than the culture of the Middle East, and I agree with you that we have a ton of problems in our consumerism driven culture as is. However the US has a relatively difficult problem on our hands because of our past mistakes that you mentioned, as well as our role in radicalizing the countries in the area in an effort to combat Communism. In essence we’ve caught the tiger by the tail, and we’re arguably past the point of being able to let go and hope they forget about us. Thus our dilemma.

The Middle East has had a time when they were one of the most advanced nations at the time during the “Golden Age of Islam,” where they practiced much more liberal values in the country, allowing some deviance from the central religion while still maintaining that Islam had the final say. Just like how a strong man has no need to prove his strength by attacking the weak man, so too was the state secure enough in it’s foundation that it allowed a more free society within. Currently the area has been twisted and torn so much that it can’t feel secure, making for a much less free society.

To try and muscle the area back to it’s former glory as the Ottoman Empire would be expensive and probably hopeless at this point though, and so it necessitates a different approach. We’ve already used force and violence to try and make them do what we want, and that has created enemies. The one thing that we have done that has consistently worked to turn people friendly is the use of our media, thus the above statement.

But I get what you’re saying. We don’t really want another America in the Middle East. People should be allowed to choose a government and lifestyle that they feel drawn to, even if it doesn’t necessarily lead to Western values. But there is instability in the region, and it’s affecting us directly. So I would ask you, with the current insanely complicated situation, what would you suggest we do (or not do) to perhaps help bring peace and prosperity to the Middle East?


When a free man [quote=“welldrinker, post:175, topic:106617”]
We don’t really want another America in the Middle East.

[/quote][quote=“welldrinker, post:175, topic:106617”]
People should be allowed to choose a government and lifestyle that they feel drawn to,

Muslims cannot vote against Sharia. That brings a death penalty.

Seems that you have forgotten what a free man’s first duty to humanity is.

Let me remind you that it is to insure that all share in that freedom.



A free man has no chains that restrain or compel him. A duty is a chain that compels a man to do something and restrains him from doing others. A truly free man has no duties.



[quote=“debutant, post:146, topic:106617”]
The West have gone in to a lot of countries as missionaries already, thinking they are helping out the “uneducated locals”. Too often they are doing more harm than good. [/quote]

“what’ll you have, you backwards savages- burger or bullet?”


.[quote=“Greatest_I_am, post:176, topic:106617”]
Muslims cannot vote against Sharia. That brings a death penalty.

They can vote against Sharia Law in a non authoritarian society. In the Ottoman Empire, one could be a Christian or a Jew and be just fine, and do you think they were rooting for Sharia while they were there? The only reason people die for a mere disagreement is when one is in an authoritarian state, religion is just the justifier for it, not the motivator.


y’know, except for the cripplingly high dhimmi taxes, the bowing to your Muslim overlords, etc.

So you think that the fact traditional Islam demands an authoritarian state to maintain it’s practices, such as laws against blasphemy that Muslims today are lobbying to be classified as “hate speech”, has nothing to do with it?