Non Aggression Principle


#1

As a Libertarian Capitalist I believe in the non aggression Principle. It states that any use of force, violence, coercion or aggression is illegitimate. It also states that everyone is equal in the law and in rights. I believe that any crime with no victim should be legal and that the state as we know it should be abolished. The State clearly violates the Non Aggression Principle all the time. Taxation is one example. Is there any hardline Authoritarian Leftists here that want to debate the N.A.P? If so I would be open to do so.


#2

You’re an ancap not a libcap.

While yes in America we have our screw ups and wrongdoings, this is generally true. often times yes people get screwed over, but that is the fault of the people not trying to do anything to fix corruption and letting their own biases and prejudices rule them.

Yeah i pretty much actually agree with you here(if im being my usual libcap self and not despotic)

Oof o.k. 1.) The market cannot offer up a judicial system, like at all. How the hell can someone appeal a court case? Go to another corporation? How does the ‘victor’, for lack of a better term, get decided in these court cases? By who has the most money, or what is right? But how do you decide what is right without law? And how do you establish law without a state?
2.) yes much of our taxes is wasted on bs, that i concede. but without taxation, how would roads and infrastructure be maintained? How would schooling be given to the masses? How would those who can’t afford defense attorneys? Who would do the policing?(yes ik the police are certainly in need of some major changes, but doesn’t change the fact that without them crime would be rampant). Without taxes there wouldn’t be a military, so foreign nations could just have their way with no consequences. How do you provide necessary aid (to our citizens) during tragedies such as wildfires and hurricanes without taxes? And dont say donations, because anyone with half a brain could tell you not enough people would donate to help, hell taxes only alleviate a tiny bit of the problems. Who would pay the firemen to put out fires? Who would keep up hospitals and nurses? The corporations? Theyd just charge exorbitant rates and then next thing you know, serfdom.

Honestly you Ancaps just seem to be in favor of a plutocracy, and not actual anarchism.


#3

Would you not agree that the state is necessary to an extent, despite its inherent evils?


#5

No, I am a Libertarian Capitalist. I still believe in the need for a state which I will explain.


#6

I agree, the market cannot provide a well functioning Judicial system, and a public Judiciary is needed. However, Public Police, Public Courts and the National Defence should all be funded by voluntary taxation. It works like this. People are not held at gunpoint to surrender their income, they can choose to pay taxes towards the Government. Why would they do this? Well, if people value a service enough then they will pay taxes towards it. For example, the community want to be safe, so they will be compelled to make contributions to Public Prisons and Courts, Public Police and the National Defence. The Roads and Education services should be managed by the private sector however, people with much more money in their pockets are more likely to donate to charities like the church who may provide cheap education and healthcare.


#7

Yes I do believe in an extremely limited state. The Night Watchman State is my ideal model.


#8

The poor people wouldn’t feel compelled to donate their money, they’d just keep it and fend for themselves, hoping they don’t have to do anything. A lot of times people in the lower class already struggle with taxes, which sucks, but if they don’t have to pay, why should they care what the country does, it’s not the their money that’s being wasted, it’s the rich. The rich would just be able to hire private securities, especially in rich communities. The rich would then have total control of policing, because they’re the ones paying the police. Manufacturing companies would do anything for cheap labor, so lets say now they ‘volunteer’ lots of their money to fund the courts and police. They could essentially have as many people as they want arrested, since they fund the courts and police, and just put them in for-profit prisons with no pay. On the whole most people want to stay alive, so if you give them basic necessities, such as food and a place to sleep, most people will try to stay alive, and if not, they could always arrest more.

The ‘private sector’ could just force people to pay for roads, by saying if the people don’t pay up, the roads could go into disarray and they could lose their jobs. Or those megacorporations could work together and start hiking up prices of products in order to pay for the maintenance of roads and crap. Walmart isn’t going to gleefully cough up money, they raise their prices to try and pay for any roads they wish to be maintained, which would be almost none considering how many roads they’d have to keep up. There are way too many roads that need to be maintained/built for the private sector to handle. Nowadays roads are a necessity, and people wouldn’t be happy with someone trying to bring back dirt roads and crap. Also how would car crash damages be handled? From donations on people who use that roads? Yeah okay. How about lights? Who would control those? Does every light have its own owner or what? There’s a lot of problems with the private sector taking control of road maintenance.
And the private sector taking control of education is certainly funny. Colleges are already extremely expensive, if the private sector got a hold of all them, college prices would get hiked up. Yes private colleges often do really well, but everyone knows their expensive and many can’t afford them, which is why wayy less people go to private colleges than public ones. And ‘the church’ providing basic education and healthcare? Ha! You’re basically asking for a theocracy to establish a base, and for discrimination to run rampant. There are many different sects of christianity now, so if one sect got power over another, who is to say that they not offer education and health care to lesser sects they disagree with? What about people of other religions? Muslims would surely be targeted more often, and atheists would probably be shut out from educational services. LGBT people too would targeted. And most of the rich don’t care about the people less fortunate than them. are there some who do? yes of course, but most would gladly replace workers as soon as they dies, versus doing anything for them. Most employers are forced to give their workers health insurance, something i have no doubt most would get rid of if they could. This minimal state you envision would just lead to a plutocracy, and if the christians were able to get together, it would become a plutocracy/theocracy mix. That would certainly be more oppressive than the state we have now.


#9

No, it is all voluntary transactions. The owners of Roads couldn’t force people to go onto their roads and pay for their roads. If the prices are very high then people could just stop using the road and go to another one. The road owner would have no motivation to force up prices. It’s really just like any other company. Do you see Walmart charging hundreds for necessities? No! It’s called market competition.

https://youtu.be/xVYnQyZWlik This is a good video explaining Privatised Roads. Although I am not an Anarchist I find it very helpful.

This is a load of crap. The roads are already built by the private sector and payed by taxation through the government. Why not just eliminate the Government intervention between the two parties? Why not just let the taxpayer directly pay for the road when they need it, rather than it being forced onto them by the government.

https://youtu.be/b-nE5XChP-M This is quite a good lecture by Walter Block. It’s entitled the case for privatising everything but really it’s just about roads the whole way through. He explains about car crashes and all that stuff that you mentioned.

Did you know that the most expensive Private School in the US is twice as expensive as an average public school?

I’m not religious and don’t agree with the church but I was referring to education funded by charities and religious institutions. I just gave the Church as an off the top of my head example for a charity.

It is a ridiculous proposition that the rich don’t care about those who are less fortunate than them. Who employs people? Who provides services? The rich business owners of course.

Do you see that as a good thing? That employers are forcefully made to pay for their fellow man’s health insurance? No! It is not their responsibility.

Even though the businesses have no coercive power of monopoly without the government.


#10

I remember when I was a right libertarian, those days were funny


#11

What are you now?


#12

Communist (demsoc tendency)


#14

It’s alright you can be catty here lol, I refer to most right libs as lolbiterians. We used to do great shitposting here, I see you got into the discord too, you gonna post there?


#15

The thing about the Non-Aggression Principle is whilst it seems like a perfectly nice and moral ideal on the surface and for a while it did sway me somewhat in a right-libertarian direction(Or more right-libertarian than I am now at least),it`s ultimately unsustainable and flies in the face of the entire evolutionary process. Humans did not transcend the other primates by playing nice. We did so by way of centuries of struggle and dominance. I also find it ironic and hypocritical that advocates of the Non-Aggression Principle seem to have no problem with the aggression of systemic racism,transphobia,ableism(Which I, as a High-Functioning Aspie with some OCD and ADHD traits,have personally experienced both IRL and online) and patriarchy. In fact, I’ve heard many online “LibCaps” argue in favor of those forms of aggression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WRttmk4F8?v=8Tonyri5Xys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgvXR55YaHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7y33zigITM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM-LM5ZTGqY


#16

Your Bill:

Air: 0.3 Bitcoin
Water: 5 Bitcoin
Gas: 6000 Bitcoin (cause its all mined up by now)
Blinking your eyes: 0.0003 Bitcoin (The company that you bought your eyes from charges this.)
McLoans: 0.4 Bitcoin (You couldnt afford mcdonalds some days cause your wage is ridiculously low)
Being late to work: 4 bitcoin (You could afford gas so you had to walk. You have no shoes.)
Walking on private roads: 0.4 Bitcoin
Walking on private roads with bare feet: 0.004 Bitcoin. (cause you made the road dirty.)
Housing: 0 Bitcoin (You dont have a fucking house)

Total Existence Cost: 6004.8043 Bitcoin
Wage: 0.1 Bitcoin
Hours / Week: 60
Sleep: 2h/night

Oh also sleep costs money: 5 Bitcoin.