Off Shoring Jobs- Good for our Security?

I’m not sure where the trend currently is but over the last 20 years, the move by U.S. based corporations to offshore as many manufacturing jobs as possible- Is that good for us as a country? Is it good for our economy? Is it good for our collective security? I say it’s not.

So what if the price of goods drop, when most of the savings is pocketed by the corporation, if a large percentage of workers lose their relatively good paying jobs or see their wages plummet, and the knowledge to manufacture specific categories of items will eventually be lost. As the manufacturing capitals of the world, 3rd world countries will reign supreme. Don’t even thing about the next World War where we need supplies being manufactured abroad.

BTW, since government policy has a say and there strong partisan views regarding this subject, I’ve placed this in the politics section.

Good place for it.

I say out sourcing is bad long term, in fact I think we are seeing some ripple effects from it now, and I think we need to reel the manufacturing sector back to the US.

That or tax American products made overseas to the point where American made products can be competitive :wink:

In other words a widget made here costs $10 to make, and is sold for $15, a widget made in China costs $2 and is sold for $8

I say the company making the product over in China, gets taxed to bring the difference up, to give the company who doesn’t outsource a chance to be competitive.

I say we bring back business to the USA. What about all the factories that have closed down and been bought up by offshore companies that put millions of people out of work? The USA doesn’t manufacture shit anymore. That is part of our biggest economic problem in my opinion.

We give jobs to sweat shops who pay their employees shit when we could be paying our own people to make these products. There are 5 factories around here that have either closed down or been bought out by Asian conglomerates.

[quote=“BadBoy@TheWheel, post: 1022161”]Good place for it.

I say out sourcing is bad long term, in fact I think we are seeing some ripple effects from it now, and I think we need to reel the manufacturing sector back to the US.

That or tax American products made overseas to the point where American made products can be competitive :wink:

In other words a widget made here costs $10 to make, and is sold for $15, a widget made in China costs $2 and is sold for $8

I say the company making the product over in China, gets taxed to bring the difference up, to give the company who doesn’t outsource a chance to be competitive.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the response! Any country needs a pool of good paying jobs for it to be competitive. You don’t feel so good if your goods cost 30% less, but you took a 50% pay cut… :wink:

That is the trend and they expect to have customers left to buy their products. You can see if you take this to an extreme the latter won’t be the case.

[quote=“BadBoy@TheWheel, post: 1022161”]Good place for it.

I say out sourcing is bad long term, in fact I think we are seeing some ripple effects from it now, and I think we need to reel the manufacturing sector back to the US.

That or tax American products made overseas to the point where American made products can be competitive :wink:

In other words a widget made here costs $10 to make, and is sold for $15, a widget made in China costs $2 and is sold for $8

I say the company making the product over in China, gets taxed to bring the difference up, to give the company who doesn’t outsource a chance to be competitive.[/quote]

Taxing or putting tarrifs on products has typically backfired.

Smoot-Hawley resulted in other countries doing the same to our goods which some say prolonged the Depression.

We need to export more and I would be concerned about tarrifs or taxes on incoming goods making matters worse.

We need to get away from Walmaritis and McDonalditis where we want everything free and fast.

Used to be I could get work because of quality. Now it is all bottom line. And my work is based on blind faith. Virtually no layman has the ability to determine if I screwed up.

We whine about the quality of food and goods coming in from China which should wake people up that quality does count.

How we turned the mindset around is not in my pay grade but until we are willing to pay more for our own quality of goods we will continue to drive business out of the country. Liberals will not agree but onerous regulations and taxes have a lot to do with this problem.

We have to comply to all kinds of regulations that are costly in fees and in manpower which are not providing any benefit. Instead of going after those that are causing the problem we throw a blanket on everybody.

Taxes clearly are a driving factor or Michigan would be seeing the movie industry as the only one that is starting up and poised to thrive. All because they got tax breaks.

[quote=“Alien Allen, post: 1022166”]Taxing or putting tarrifs on products has typically backfired.

Smoot-Hawley resulted in other countries doing the same to our goods which some say prolonged the Depression.

We need to export more and I would be concerned about tarrifs or taxes on incoming goods making matters worse.

We need to get away from Walmaritis and McDonalditis where we want everything free and fast.

Used to be I could get work because of quality. Now it is all bottom line. And my work is based on blind faith. Virtually no layman has the ability to determine if I screwed up.

We whine about the quality of food and goods coming in from China which should wake people up that quality does count.

How we turned the mindset around is not in my pay grade but until we are willing to pay more for our own quality of goods we will continue to drive business out of the country. Liberals will not agree but onerous regulations and taxes have a lot to do with this problem.

We have to comply to all kinds of regulations that are costly in fees and in manpower which are not providing any benefit. Instead of going after those that are causing the problem we throw a blanket on everybody.

Taxes clearly are a driving factor or Michigan would be seeing the movie industry as the only one that is starting up and poised to thrive. All because they got tax breaks.[/QUOTE]
Good post.

To expand on it, let’s look at the two main reasons that manufacturing is being driven out of the US.

Reason #1: AA already touched on this, but corporations here have to deal with so many regulations and permits and rules etc, etc, that it is much easier and much less costly to start up a business elsewhere. Why would they want to start a business here, when they have to go through years of battling people who don’t want a manufacturing plant near their neighborhood and liberals who don’t want pollution at all, so they’ll tax them like crazy for it?

Reason #2: Wage costs. During the industrial revolution, we had tons of manufacturing, because people were willing to work long hours in poor conditions for little pay. We have decided as a country that we no longer want to work like that with the introductions of unions, minimum wages, and overtime limits, but other countries are still willing to.

Now, the only way to force manufacturing back into the country is through taxation or elimination of imported goods. If we eliminate imported goods, or tax imports enough to where it’d be worth it for businesses to manufacture here again, then sure, we’ll have tons of manufacturing jobs again. But it’ll cost $200 for a 9v remote control car for your kid, too, especially the way unions extort their wages.

I am all for manufacturing jobs being sent oversees. It allows us as Americans to focus on bettering ourselves through higher education to perform better jobs, such as doctors and business managers, while taking the unskilled labor outside of the country. It gives us lower-priced goods, while forcing many of us to better ourselves through education.

Sarge I gotta disagree about being all for manufacturing going overseas. We need to be more self reliant. I am anti union but that is based on the past. I think they have started to get the picture that there is a limit as to the wages and benefits that can be given. I also think we are seeing the signs of the Big 3 and other companies that are leaning out their white collar forces. A lot of companies were bloated at the top as much as they were effected by the blue collar wages. There needs to be a meeting of the minds on this so that these companies can once again thrive.

Ok, I do agree with self-reliance. We should be sure to have the capabilities of manufacturing everything we NEED ourselves, just in case the whole world turns against us in the future. But, I think the manufacturing of toys and such is fine to be done by other countries.

And I certainly hope unions have gotten the picture. I am still very anti-union though, regardless of what they do. The fact that they have the powers they do is just absurd, even if they aren’t abusing them now.

[quote=“SgtSpike, post: 1022167”]Good post.

To expand on it, let’s look at the two main reasons that manufacturing is being driven out of the US.

Reason #1: AA already touched on this, but corporations here have to deal with so many regulations and permits and rules etc, etc, that it is much easier and much less costly to start up a business elsewhere. Why would they want to start a business here, when they have to go through years of battling people who don’t want a manufacturing plant near their neighborhood and liberals who don’t want pollution at all, so they’ll tax them like crazy for it?

Reason #2: Wage costs. During the industrial revolution, we had tons of manufacturing, because people were willing to work long hours in poor conditions for little pay. We have decided as a country that we no longer want to work like that with the introductions of unions, minimum wages, and overtime limits, but other countries are still willing to.

Now, the only way to force manufacturing back into the country is through taxation or elimination of imported goods. If we eliminate imported goods, or tax imports enough to where it’d be worth it for businesses to manufacture here again, then sure, we’ll have tons of manufacturing jobs again. But it’ll cost $200 for a 9v remote control car for your kid, too, especially the way unions extort their wages.

I am all for manufacturing jobs being sent oversees. It allows us as Americans to focus on bettering ourselves through higher education to perform better jobs, such as doctors and business managers, while taking the unskilled labor outside of the country. It gives us lower-priced goods, while forcing many of us to better ourselves through education.[/quote]

If that has been the goal, we as a country have failed. Public education is in shambles, we have pushed for racial quotas before academic excellence, and now if you get a manufacturing job in the US, you had better hang on to it, cause you might not find another one.

WE need to regain control of our own destiny again, instead of outsourcing our destiny.

[quote=“BadBoy@TheWheel, post: 1022170”]If that has been the goal, we as a country have failed. Public education is in shambles, we have pushed for racial quotas before academic excellence, and now if you get a manufacturing job in the US, you had better hang on to it, cause you might not find another one.

WE need to regain control of our own destiny again, instead of outsourcing our destiny.[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah, you just outlined a whole host of problems caused by liberals. The reason public education has failed is just because of that reason - it is public! Now I understand the need to have as many people, regardless of financial status, attend school, but when you take away the free market, schools don’t have a real big reason to remain competent. I don’t have a solution for this one, but I agree, the current public school system is terrible. It’s why I’ll either be homeschooling my kids or putting them in a private school I trust.

Anyway, regarding manufacturing, I’ve already said I agree that we should have the capabilities to manufacture things that we need to survive (which, we’re still pretty close to anyway), but what is the point of having more than that? We’ll just take away people from becoming doctors, or aspiring to other higher-education related jobs.

[quote=“SgtSpike, post: 1022171”] It’s why I’ll either be homeschooling my kids or putting them in a private school I trust.

[/quote]

Great way to get the bullied by other kids and grow up into gulliable adults prime to be ripped off by just about anyone. Good job!:thumbup

Lol, think what you want. At least they’ll have more than half a brain on their heads.

I am against home school for the most part

Look at the National Spelling Bee and tell me the top kids that are home schooled are normal.

Home school can be done but it takes an extra effort to make sure the kids get contact with other kids. And many of the home school parents are home schooling to keep their kids away from other kids

It is far better to live in a decent area where public schools are decent and that takes a lot of parental involvement. My kids schools have been at the top of the heap. I moved here for that reason in part. I could have bought a bigger home closer to work for a third of the price in a shit school district. Parental involvement is the key. And with that you can have great schools

Shame its the wrong half of brain to interact in social circles, not much good being able to earn lots of money if you’re not clever enough to not get people rip it off you.

[quote=“SgtSpike, post: 1022171”]Well, yeah, you just outlined a whole host of problems caused by liberals. The reason public education has failed is just because of that reason - it is public! Now I understand the need to have as many people, regardless of financial status, attend school, but when you take away the free market, schools don’t have a real big reason to remain competent. I don’t have a solution for this one, but I agree, the current public school system is terrible. It’s why I’ll either be homeschooling my kids or putting them in a private school I trust.

Anyway, regarding manufacturing, I’ve already said I agree that we should have the capabilities to manufacture things that we need to survive (which, we’re still pretty close to anyway), but what is the point of having more than that? We’ll just take away people from becoming doctors, or aspiring to other higher-education related jobs.[/quote]

The problem with that logic should be clear…

You only need one thing to make sure your kid becomes a doctor…or engineer, or whatever they want to be…You need a job:eek

You know what brought us out of the depression? The manufacturing sector during wartime;)

Not Harvard Medical School

[quote=“Alien Allen, post: 1022174”]I am against home school for the most part

Look at the National Spelling Bee and tell me the top kids that are home schooled are normal.

Home school can be done but it takes an extra effort to make sure the kids get contact with other kids. And many of the home school parents are home schooling to keep their kids away from other kids

It is far better to live in a decent area where public schools are decent and that takes a lot of parental involvement. My kids schools have been at the top of the heap. I moved here for that reason in part. I could have bought a bigger home closer to work for a third of the price in a shit school district. Parental involvement is the key. And with that you can have great schools[/quote]
Lol, well you can’t deduce that those kids are wierd because they were homeschooled. It very well could be they were homeschooled because they were wierd. :slight_smile: But I definitely understand your point about necessary interaction with other people, and that is something I would pay a good deal of attention to. I was homeschooled from 3rd grade til college, but we had a “resource center” for homeschoolers where I was taught on the harder subjects my parents couldn’t teach. I had a good deal of interaction with people there (though many of them were weirdies, lol), and I definitely agree that some sort of major social interaction is needed to supplement homeschooling.

Lol, I definitely agree there are some people who are terrible at homeschooling, and their children turn out to be social hermits, but like I said in the previous quote, if you include the necessary social interaction, they’ll turn out just fine. Heck, I was homeschooled, and now I’ve got an excellent job, going to college, married, have a good number of friends, and I’m an excellent communicator (or at least I think I am ;)).

[quote=“BadBoy@TheWheel, post: 1022176”]The problem with that logic should be clear…

You only need one thing to make sure your kid becomes a doctor…or engineer, or whatever they want to be…You need a job

You know what brought us out of the depression? The manufacturing sector during wartime

Not Harvard Medical School[/quote]
I’m not sure what you mean… why do the parents need a job for their kids to go to school? I’m going to college, and my parents haven’t given me one cent towards it. Anyone can go through higher-level education if they want to…

And yes, manufacturing helped bring us out of the depression. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best way. A bunch of engineers and businessmen could bring us out of a depression just as easily. :thumbup

[quote=“SgtSpike, post: 1022177”]Lol, well you can’t deduce that those kids are wierd because they were homeschooled. It very well could be they were homeschooled because they were wierd. :slight_smile: But I definitely understand your point about necessary interaction with other people, and that is something I would pay a good deal of attention to. I was homeschooled from 3rd grade til college, but we had a “resource center” for homeschoolers where I was taught on the harder subjects my parents couldn’t teach. I had a good deal of interaction with people there (though many of them were weirdies, lol), and I definitely agree that some sort of major social interaction is needed to supplement homeschooling.

Lol, I definitely agree there are some people who are terrible at homeschooling, and their children turn out to be social hermits, but like I said in the previous quote, if you include the necessary social interaction, they’ll turn out just fine. Heck, I was homeschooled, and now I’ve got an excellent job, going to college, married, have a good number of friends, and I’m an excellent communicator (or at least I think I am ;)).

I’m not sure what you mean… why do the parents need a job for their kids to go to school? I’m going to college, and my parents haven’t given me one cent towards it. Anyone can go through higher-level education if they want to…

And yes, manufacturing helped bring us out of the depression. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best way. A bunch of engineers and businessmen could bring us out of a depression just as easily. :thumbup[/quote]

Go look at statistics of tax brackets and how they correlate with education, it’s clear that unfortunately, a large majority of poverty level kids typically do not have the opportunity to go to college.

Here’s how you have to look at it:

Minimum wage jobs=Foundation

Mid Level=Builds experience

Industrial/Manufacturing=Amongst the largest sector of employers

What we need to be doing as a country, is building the capability for everyone to aim for, and achieve a competitive paying job, with benefits, along with the opportunity to continue to move up, given the opportunity and having the willingness.

There is no denying that communities flush with job opportunities provide solid tax bases, that in turn provides money for public school, which in turn improves morale, community spirit and grades along with the drive for children to learn.

Education is something that you cultivate, you cannot draw a straight line, it’s a multi stage process. We cannot as a country, bank on high level jobs as the primary source of income and value to our country, diversity in every area is how this country was built.

This crisis is proof that we have as a country put too much emphasis and trust in the hands of executives, and less faith in the good old fashioned sweat of the brow clock punching worker that put us on the map to begin with.

You cannot, have a well rounded community, economical system, education system or defense without a robust manufacturing sector.

[quote=“BadBoy@TheWheel, post: 1022178”]Go look at statistics of tax brackets and how they correlate with education, it’s clear that unfortunately, a large majority of poverty level kids typically do not have the opportunity to go to college.

Here’s how you have to look at it:

Minimum wage jobs=Foundation

Mid Level=Builds experience

Industrial/Manufacturing=Amongst the largest sector of employers

What we need to be doing as a country, is building the capability for everyone to aim for, and achieve a competitive paying job, with benefits, along with the opportunity to continue to move up, given the opportunity and having the willingness.

There is no denying that communities flush with job opportunities provide solid tax bases, that in turn provides money for public school, which in turn improves morale, community spirit and grades along with the drive for children to learn.

Education is something that you cultivate, you cannot draw a straight line, it’s a multi stage process. We cannot as a country, bank on high level jobs as the primary source of income and value to our country, diversity in every area is how this country was built.

This crisis is proof that we have as a country put too much emphasis and trust in the hands of executives, and less faith in the good old fashioned sweat of the brow clock punching worker that put us on the map to begin with.

You cannot, have a well rounded community, economical system, education system or defense without a robust manufacturing sector.[/quote]
Well, I completely disagree with you, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. :wink: