I don’t think that people are born with the right to ‘life, liberty, and property.’ I think rights are given by the state. Anyone want to give their opinion as to why they disagree/agree?
As a Christian I believe that humans are born with inherent value, and so believe in a right to life. As to liberty and property, I would agree that these are granted by the state, and so no-one in effect possesses a fundamental right to them.
So do we all at least agree that we are born to the right to life then, even you @thegaydespot ?
Or do you dispute this?
Mmmm. Tbh I mean, no? Like in a moral sense Ig yeah, like i personally wouldn’t murder a bunch of kids for fun you know, that’s screwed up. But naturally, animals consider each other fair game for land/food/mates. I’m not trying to make this a moral debate btw lol, unless someone thinks it’s morally okay to murder children(which I don’t). I just think that the born with rights thing isn’t really a thing. It is by the will of the state you live under whether you live or not (or have property/civil rights/ stuff like that). Also I’m not saying the state can’t give people just rights, just that they aren’t a naturally given right.
A baby has a natural right to life. I believe that it is beyond the authority of any government to take that away. That is what a natural right is.
Ah okay lol. I disagree with natural rights, but I just wanted to see how other people felt, like how so far you guys have felt a right-to-life is a given no matter what. (I’m not saying I condone mass murdering btw, just that it’s up to the state whether you have rights or not. )
I certainly do not believe that it is well within the rights of the state to murder a baby if it so chooses.
I believe the right to life is a natural right, not a right given by a state. Of course a state can take it away (capital punishment, genocide, etc.) or choose not to recognize it (restriction of citizenship, social security, etc.) but anyone can just live and exist.
On the other hand, I think right to liberty and property is contingent on the fact that the state recognizes your personhood.
Life, Liberty, and Property are natural rights which you are born with, at least on the sovereign soil of the United States of America. However by all technicality the state does have the ability to remove these rights, however if it does so you better resist, as that state is tyrannical.
To me, the only exception to this is for theists. If you’re religious, natural and objective rights are completely compatible with your ideas. But if you aren’t, then rights simply shouldn’t exist to you. There’s no evidence of them existing independent of us, they’re simply convenient social contracts.
The rights of the individual can only be overruled by the state when that individual attempts to trample on the rights of another. In these situations, the individual forfeits their own rights until they are no longer threatening the rights of others.