Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?


#101

I guess that if a judge does believe that the defendant actually believe his own lies, he would be corrected, forced to return the cash and restricted further lying. I am not sure of all the nuances and judges do not always agree.

A conservative judge might be more lenient than a liberal judge and all cases would be different.

As to I.D.

Regards
DL


#102

Oh, that ID. I thought you meant voter ID cases, not intelligent design. You coulda clarified that y’know


#103

:scream::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#104

What the heck


#105

Exactly, that’s why religion must be separate from the state otherwise scenarios like that will occur.


#106

You’re really going to enforce fraud laws against religion? Frankly, I’d like to see fraud laws against every single person on the planet. Lying is wrong.

Ooh, personal insult. Well done.

Sure.

What a person chooses (wilfully) is none of the states business, none of my business, none of your business. The state has a duty to prevent legal fraud, it has no right to dictate beliefs. The fact that you believe those beliefs to be lies means jack all.


#107

I agree, I think it’s better to treat all religions the same, because otherwise you do get tricky questions like this. I also think it’s much, much better to regulate religions financially, such as by restricting how much money they can receive and how from, rather than regulating people’s beliefs- which can sometimes lead to quite authoritarian governments


#108

For one, how do you determine if a religion is fraudulent? Where is the line drawn between cults versus “validated” religions? I’m sure any religion would seem “fraudulent” to its non-believers. Christianity is a popular religion and Christians devote time, energy, money, etc to receive salvation and go to heaven. To its non-believers, that way of life might sound like straight up BS.

Also, telling me I can’t believe what I believe because the government doesn’t recognize my religion not only restricts my freedom of religion but also my right to liberty. If I want to allocate all my retirement savings in supporting a cult, that’s on me; that’s my money to spend and my life to live.

Especially when you allow the government to control religion, don’t you think the whole system would be corrupted by lobbyists supporting some religions over others? I’m all for separation of church and state and I think giving the government power to exercise over the church will actually be counterproductive in control over religions. It’ll end with which ever religion with the most money to pour into government lobbying.

We have to recognize people should have the freedom to believe what they want to believe and should base our government on moral values not religious faith.


#109

Who said anything about a state religion?

I am talking regulations and fraud laws that exist.

Nowhere did I recommend a state religion.

Are you recommending we live with flagrant and open fraud of our weakest and most gullible citizens?

Regards
DL


#110

I would like to for the reason you state. That would include yours.

I see you do not deny what I put.

Can’t focus eh.

Your first is correct.

Your second is foolish because no one can dictate beliefs.

I do not care about beliefs that do no harm.

Beliefs are belief and you not caring if people believe lies shows how you do not live by the Golden Rule.

Your religion has corrupted your moral sense.

Regards
DL


#111

I have to run but two things.

You do not seem to trust your own legal system to be able to distinguish lies from truth. Why?

The church has never proven that God exists and thus talking of salvation when your condemnation has never been proven and speaking of a heaven and hell that have also not been proven are thus demonstrable lies.

Do you really believe that those statements on those to be true or false?

Regards
DL


#112

You can believe you can fly if you are that gullible. I don’t care.
I care if you are paying for some fraudster who has convinced you that you can fly and is defrauding you with lies.

See the difference?

Regards
DL


#113

Would it include you and your heresies? I wonder.

Fine, I do now.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, I may not be perfect, but my moral sense is not that bad.


#114

owainp

Except that your morals come from a genocidal son murdering God.

Your satanic morals are noted.

Regards
DL


#115

Yes. Many believe in those lies. Do you think it good to lie to people about things you cannot know for their cash?

You are able to tell a lie from a truth right?

Why do you think our authorities cannot?

It is straight up B.S.

??

No one can make you believe what you do not want. Believe all the lies you want, but have your clergy stop lying to you.

You seem to think that the governments do not regulate religions at present. You would be wrong.

Just look at the new anti-polygamy laws just recently passed in the U.S.

Regards
DL


#116

My point is that I should have the freedom to believe whatever lies I want to. I should have the freedom to spend my money however I want to.

In terms of your point about the government’s push against polygamy: people will practice polygamy or polyamorous relationships as they choose - it’s just that the state will not recognize it as a legal marital status.


#117

You do for sure, but if you are an old mother whose son just saw her give the farm away for destitution because some religious con man got to her, you should have an avenue to get that con man jailed and your mothers farm back.

Strange that you would advocate for liars and thieves.

Regards
DL


#118

Our society is a free one that allows for liars and thieves. Nothing wrong with that.


#119

What is wrong is you advocating for it.

So much for your moral fiber.

Regards
DL


#120

Would you put someone in jail on the basis of them lying about something?