The USA Gun Problem

And before anyone jumps in, I want to try this from a different angle. Apparently its your right to own guns but its also an undeniable fact that there is a gun abuse problem in your country which costs many lives. So without taking away your right to shoot guns, what do you think is the best way to reduce this problem?

Personally I think, ban hand guns in the open and make them only available to shoot at licensed gunclubs which have met a security standard as to how well they are locked up. Make rifles only accessable through strict regulation and also a security check of how well they are locked up when not in use. Make licensees seriously responsible for this and liable to a minimum 5 year prison sentence if their guns fall into the wrong hands through their own carelessness. Minimum 5 years in prison for anyone carrying a gun illegally.

Thoughts?

[quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083819”] Make licensees seriously responsible for this and liable to a minimum 5 year prison sentence if their guns fall into the wrong hands through their own carelessness.
[/quote]

Ouch. Thats a bit harsh for someone who didnt really do anything wrong.

If through your carelessness without any reasonable excuse, your gun was responsible for ending an innocent life, is that really that harsh?

Well to begin with…a gun abuse problem? I’m not aware of said problem. In all my experience I’ve never seen a weapon used aside for sport in real life. I disagree with having any regulation on guns. People that do abuse guns either for robbery or even attempted murder are jailed. I believe if you use a gun in a robbery and are convicted the minimum time spent in jail is 20 years.

I’m also against gun registration.

I’ve put these stats up enough times but I’ll put them up again for the benifit of the thread. It really isn’t deniable there is a gun problem in the USA and it is even more worrying that people such as yourself are not aware of this, admitting a problem is always the first step to dealing with it.

Gun Facts

You say it like people leave their firearms laying out on the front lawn. Guns end up in the hands of the dangerous through robberies and other means of criminal activity. Theres nothing you can do to stop criminals from TAKING peoples guns.

[FONT=Tahoma][quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083821”]If through your carelessness without any reasonable excuse, your gun was responsible for ending an innocent life, is that really that harsh?[/quote]

Something more to add to this, I’m not responsible for the trigger being pulled and consequently the death of another person. Only one person has actually committed a crime. The person who stole my gun to begin with and the same person pulled the trigger. I did not force him to do any of these things.

[quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083824”]I’ve put these stats up enough times but I’ll put them up again for the benifit of the thread. It really isn’t deniable there is a gun problem in the USA and it is even more worrying that people such as yourself are not aware of this, admitting a problem is always the first step to dealing with it.

Gun Facts[/quote]

Those facts are extremely out of date. I shall take a look to see if there is something more with the times.

Anyway I’m not concerned with people committing suicide by guns. If they want to kill themselves then they will find another way.

[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=2]In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

Nearly 30k deaths in one year from guns? that is extremely minute when compared to other causes for deaths, and I would hardly consider that to be a problem.

Regardless it is a small price to pay to have access to guns. Let me remind you the reason for which we have the right to keep and bear arms. “When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands…”[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma]You begin to put tons of regulation on how you are able to have access to your weapons and criminals will be the only ones with easy access. What good does it do you if your guns are locked up and a criminals is breaking and entering your house.

Guns don’t kill people, people kill people and all that jazz.

An interesting side note, I’m not sure how it was around the rest of the US, but here locally and I think in most areas of the south, pawn shops and everybody else that sold fire arms sold out all their ammo and nearly all their stock of weapons when Obama was elected.
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As an American sho doesn’t shoot guns… I don’t care… As an American who has seen the hydocondriacs and obsessive and obsessive compulsive i thhink doing aay with guns is a bad idea. My moms man is OC and thinks the world as we know it will cease to exist. I think that we all shopuld know how ro hunt for food whethether we want to or not… o dunno if this was releivant to anything but i don’t care.

These gun facts are as old and perhaps a little older than your link.

QUICK GUN FACTS

Ok, I’ve just come across this as well. THe above link took it’s facts from this book.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf

I recommend scrolling to page 10 in the above book.

I keep editing this so I don’t look like a post whore, lol

Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.71

71 Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University (1997) and Kopel (1992 and 1999)

Fact: Even banning guns does not slow down criminals. In the U.K., where private ownership of firearms is practically forbidden, criminals have and use guns regularly, and even build their own. One enterprising fellow converted 170 starter pistols to functioning firearms and sold them to gangs. Hundreds of such underground gun factories have been established, contributing to a 35% jump in gun violence.82

82 “Gun crime spreads ‘like a cancer’ across Britain”, The Guardian, Oct 5, 2003

I’ll stop editing and posting facts now since I think I’ve gotten my point across.

[quote=“KpAtch3s, post: 1083826”][FONT=Tahoma]

Yes, and people owning guns that way should get a minimum sentence of 5 years. People leaving them on the lawn certainly should too. If thre was an accepted standard of security on your guns, you shouldn’t have anything to worry about because if you certificate approved gun store got broken into, that wouldn’t be your fault. :wink:

Something more to add to this, I’m not responsible for the trigger being pulled and consequently the death of another person. Only one person has actually committed a crime. The person who stole my gun to begin with and the same person pulled the trigger. I did not force him to do any of these things.

If you leave weapons lying around carelessly or alow people not approved to hold them access and they kill someone, you are clearly not responsible enough to own guns and are clearly partly responsible.

Nearly 30k deaths in one year from guns? that is extremely minute when compared to other causes for deaths, and I would hardly consider that to be a problem.

30,000 deaths, unnecessarily isnt a problem??? Man you are fucked up! :willy_nilly:

Regardless it is a small price to pay to have access to guns. [/FONT][SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma]

Yes, especially if you were one of the 30, 000 innocent people killed by them!:willy_nilly:

[/FONT][/SIZE][/quote]

[quote=“KpAtch3s, post: 1083828”]These gun facts are as old and perhaps a little older than your link.

QUICK GUN FACTS

Ok, I’ve just come across this as well. THe above link took it’s facts from this book.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf

I recommend scrolling to page 10 in the above book.[/quote]

My computer has crashed twice trying to access you links so if you could post them here, I’d be only too happy to view and comment on them. I’ve yet to see any survey though that proves that Americans owning guns makes them safer.

Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.71

What are the statistics of the homeowners being shot dead when you compare the UK statistics there to the US ones?

[quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083830”]Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.71

What are the statistics of the homeowners being shot dead when you compare the UK statistics there to the US ones?[/quote]

Well this is page 10 and what I wanted you to see.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/BreaKaoss/Capture-2.jpg

My previous link was directly to the .pdf file. This is the site and perhaps this won’t crash your computer.
Gun Facts - Your guide for debunking gun control myth

[FONT=Tahoma] Nearly 30k deaths in one year from guns? that is extremely minute when compared to other causes for deaths, and I would hardly consider that to be a problem.

30,000 deaths, unnecessarily isnt a problem??? Man you are fucked up! :willy_nilly:

Regardless it is a small price to pay to have access to guns. [/FONT][SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma]

Yes, especially if you were one of the 30, 000 innocent people killed by them!:willy_nilly:

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma]

Freedom comes at a price and to hold onto our freedom we must be able to defend it.

I can’t do a comparison on deaths between the UK and the US, but I can show you this.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/BreaKaoss/Capture-3.jpg

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List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even Argentina has less gun deaths rate than you. Not good at all.

Wikipedia

List of countries by homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants for the years from 2000 onwards. The reliability of underlying national homicide rate[/URL] data may vary.[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate#cite_note-richards-1999-056-p29-0”][1] A comparative analysis of homicide data must be conducted carefully. This is because the legal definition of ‘homicide’ differs among countries.

That statement right there shows that these figures are not 100% reliable.

But regardless if we follow these statistics to be reliable then as follows for reference

This is homicides per 100,000 people

US 5.6
Argentina 5.27

That is a negligible difference.

UK 2.03
Australia 1.28

You have fewer deaths but higher crime rates because you have gun control laws and so there is no deterrence. My previous posts clearly supports that conclusion. You can also see from my previous posts that 71% of gun shot victims had previous arrest records meaning they have committed crimes in the past. Not to mention each had an average of 11 prior arrests.

Population
USA - 307,212,123 (July 2008 est.)
United Kingdom - 61,113,205 (July 2009 est.)
Australia - 21,007,310 (July 2008 est.)

www.cia.gov

Your smaller populations also play a roll in how many homicides you should expect per year.

Ok, you win. Guess the fact that there always seems to be some big gun shootout in the USA resulting in a load of deaths, all the time really isn’t a problem. :smiley24: And for everyone is the world, there seems to be about 10 in the USA. Wonder how safe cops in your country life Veronica and Natasha feel?

But who cares, eh? There really isnt a problem and you are much safer in the US eh? Enjoy your freedom. Personally I feel a lot safer knowing that I am unlikely to be killed if a burglar breaks in my home.

Population
USA - 307,212,123 (July 2008 est.)
United Kingdom - 61,113,205 (July 2009 est.)
Australia - 21,007,310 (July 2008 est.)

www.cia.gov Your smaller populations also play a roll in how many homicides you should expect per year. __________________

God, are you really that dumb that you dont understand percentage has nothing to do with population??? :willy_nilly:

[quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083835”]Ok, you win. Guess the fact that there always seems to be some big gun shootout in the USA resulting in a load of deaths, all the time really isn’t a problem. :smiley24: And for everyone is the world, there seems to be about 10 in the USA. Wonder how safe cops in your country life Veronica and Natasha feel?

But who cares, eh? There really isnt a problem and you are much safer in the US eh? Enjoy your freedom. Personally I feel a lot safer knowing that I am unlikely to be killed if a burglar breaks in my home.[/quote]

You make it seem as if gun shoot outs are a regular occurrence. There’s been a few incidents but it is not something that happens regularly not to mention weapons that criminals are using are generally stolen or bought off the street.

IMO you have a false sense of security. You have no way to protect yourself if somebody breaks into your home and they have a gun. And yes, I feel much safer here in the US knowing that if somebody breaks into my house while I’m home I can defend myself and family. The chance of us even having a weapon deters most criminals.

I will also enjoy having a fire arm if the time ever comes where there is a revolution in our country (God forbid it).

I’m interested in Veronica and Natasha’s response to this as well.

[quote=“Peter Parka, post: 1083836”]Population
USA - 307,212,123 (July 2008 est.)
United Kingdom - 61,113,205 (July 2009 est.)
Australia - 21,007,310 (July 2008 est.)

www.cia.gov Your smaller populations also play a roll in how many homicides you should expect per year. __________________

God, are you really that dumb that you dont understand percentage has nothing to do with population??? :willy_nilly:[/quote]

All this debate and now the name calling? lol
I understand how percentages work. If you think having an extra 250,000,000 people doesn’t affect the statistics then I think you are mistaken.


-edit
Yes, we’ll agree to disagree on this one I think.