US why don't you just shut down ol' Kim's threats?!

whitehouse
nuclearthreats
china
donaldtrump
northkorea

#1

The US and the UN are such significant influences on the political world, so why don’t they just shut Kim down? I know that this is mainly a proxy war between China/Russia and the US/allies but seriously, we’re dealing with potential deaths on our hands on the basis of dictatorial nutcase with a penchant for pushing the ‘button’ on nukes on a whim. It’s most likely bluffs and the ‘big man’ show but what if he really calls out on his bluff? All these diplomatic discussions and passive-aggressive moves such as the US shutting down the Russian Consulate, is not enough. They should grab a meeting with the North Korean leader and settle the terms once and for all.


#2

China defended North Korea before back in the Korean War, even after North Korea was the aggressor. I wouldn’t exactly call it an empty threat.

China want a buffer state.


#3

You said it yourself: because it is in fact a proxy war between China and the US. While subjugating North Korea alone would be doable, an attack on North Korea in the current situation is basically a declaration of war towards China, and even the US can’t get away with that.


#4

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/nintchdbpict000286915633.jpg?w=406

I don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but that doesn’t look random. North Korea is a bother to China, but it’s a buffer state between them and South Korea. Last thing they’d want is North Korea invaded and a pro-US government installed, as it would increase the encirclement.


#5

Yeah because Best Korea is going to be reasonable.

A mainland invasion of N.K. may be the last conventional war I’ll have a chance to participate in; I welcome the opportunity.


#6

The Kim family has been in power for over half a century. Through that they’ve purged Maoist & Stalinist-backed factions, had border clashes with China, dealt with famines in the 90’s, and worked on nuclear missiles in spite of sanctions. If they can deal with actual starvation and cannibalism, then what makes you think they’re going to listen to diplomatic talks when it’s their best interest to keep nuclear weapons (especially when they’ve seen what happens to dictators without them - Saddam, Qadaffi, etc.)[quote=“Champion, post:5, topic:112700”]
A mainland invasion of N.K. may be the last conventional war I’ll have a chance to participate in; I welcome the opportunity.
[/quote]

Have fun getting PTSD after you realize war isn’t the glorious romantic thing you think it is.


#7

You don’t.


#8

yes because every soldier ever gets PTSD just like they tell you in your leftist echo chambers

it’s not like there’s, idk, 6,000 years or so of recorded human warfare and it’s a wonder why so many people came out okay.

inb4 “it was a sekret just like how 20% of Spartans were actually closet queers!! Every society ever had a bunch of super gays and genderbenders that were just oppressed!! Like 30% of the population!!”


#9

Come on now, you should know better than this. Cases of PTSD in warfare were dramatically increased since World War I, when advanced weaponry met outdated tactics. That’s when nationalistic bullshit “glory of war” went to hell.


#10

Are you under the impression that left-wingers are the only ones opposed to war? Because plenty of right-wingers and religious people have done the same historically.

It’s not really secret that the concept of sexual orientation did not exist in Ancient Greece and that pederasty was a cultural institution in Sparta. Homosexuality was common in a lot of military classes through the world, such as the samurai in Japan.

I’ve never claimed this, mainly because homosexuality was common and accepted in East Asia, Greece, Rome, etc. of course, the Romans and Greeks considered passive homosexual sex to be unmanly and embarassing for a freeman to have performed on him, but homosexuality was not oppressed.

You try so hard to act like a super macho army man but throw it away to act like a child throwing a temper tantrum.


#11

Nothing says loving your country like seeing it’s young people mutilated or traumatized. Apparently @Champion loves his narcissistic complex about war more than he actually does his nation. Not a surprise, given how egotistical Fascism is.


#12

That’s actually a fair point and I’ll give you that one.

However, honor and glory still exist, it’s just that recently we’ve (the US) fought useless wars (e.g. Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq 2.0, Afghanistan). Korea was the last one I would have liked to fight in. Note, however, my wording;[quote=“Champion, post:5, topic:112700”]
A mainland invasion of N.K. may be the last conventional war I’ll have a chance to participate in; I welcome the opportunity.
[/quote]

I anticipate such an invasion (if it occurred) to be one of the last chances I will get to serve honorably. I mean, some proxy war with Russia might end up being conventional but it’s nowhere near what is ideal.

very true, but I was targeting you.

disputed; I am inclined to believe it wasn’t from the poems and writings I have read in my classes.

not army… not mad either.

I mean, I do want to fight. However, I am not selfish enough to just advocate fighting for the sake of fighting. If I had to I would sacrifice the chance for combat if it meant my nation moves towards nationalism in some way. However, if a war did occur, I would not hesitate to flock to the cause.[quote=“Little_Miss_Hitler, post:11, topic:112700”]
egotistical fascism is
[/quote]


#13

What “leftist echo chamber?” I’m a corporatist who believes in nationalism, it’d be pretty difficult for me to find an echo chamber on the left side of the spectrum. Ask @StrangeSignal and @Lenin_mog how much we echo one another (hint: we don’t).

Xenophon is not a reliable unbiased source on Spartan practices, similar to Tacitus in Germania, he was attempting to show a favorable picture in contrast to the perceived decadence and weakness of his own society. It says in that same paragraph:

Aelian’s Historical Miscellany talks about the responsibilities of an older Spartan citizen to younger inexperienced male lovers. Thomas F. Scanlon believes Sparta, during its Dorian polis time, is thought to be the first city to practice athletic nudity, and one of the first to formalize pederasty.

To quote Plutarch in Life of Lykourgos 17.1.

When the boys reached this age, they were favoured with the society of lovers from among the reputable young men.

Most of the evidence we have suggests that pederasty was common in Sparta, as part of the initiation into a militant warrior class. As I already pointed out, it was common in another military castes around the world as well, so it’s not much of a surprise.

On an unrelated note, Xenophon also writes that Lycurgus believed that an older man should invite a younger one to come fuck his wife and impregnate her. So not only were they screwing minors, they were literally being cucked. I can’t think of a more fitting people for you to look up to.


#14

There are no echo-chambers in the far-left. The reason for this is because everyone hates each other; smashies, tankies, demsocs, leftcoms, trots, anfems, etc. Go take a look at 8chan /leftypol/ for an example. /pol/ is an echo-chamber by its own right, in comparison.


#15

/pol/ doesn’t even really have an ideology besides hating blacks, Jews, gays, and other racial or sexual minorities. There’s not much for them to disagree on, since their IQ’s are too low to actually read very well.


#16

What about Aristotle, then?

“The old mythologer would seem to have been right in uniting Ares and Aphrodite, for all warlike races are prone to the love either of men or of women. This was exemplified among the Spartans in the days of their greatness; many things were managed by their women.”

Xenophon himself never criticized pederasty and, as an Athenian, it can be assumed he thought it to be normal. In his writings he seemed surprised by Spartan opposition, rather than supportive. You can find more details on this relatively easily.

Plutarch also writes;

Affectionate regard for boys of good character was permissible, but embracing them was held to be disgraceful, on the ground that the affection was for the body and not for the mind. Any man against whom complaint was made of any disgraceful embracing was deprived of all civic rights for life. (Moralia, The Ancient Customs of the Spartans, 7)
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Instituta_Laconica*.html

Oh come now, Lycurgus came some ~400 years before Xenophon. Even if we were to believe everything written about him by Athenians, he was also said to have reformed the erastes system away from homosexuality practiced by some Greek states.

MUCH of modern statements on pederasty is sort of thrown off as a blanket statement, not accounting for stark regional differences in the Greek polis. Sparta was not the only city state thought to not practice such acts.


#17

You conveniently ignored my point about the Wikipedia article you linked, that it cites two different accounts, one by a modern historian, that the Spartans practiced pederasty. While I’d say Aristotle was no more immune to the “Spartan mirage” than Xenophon or Plato, even if for the opposite reasons, being fond of women does not exclude homosexuality or pederasty (as I already pointed out, the Greeks did not share the modern idea of homosexuality or heterosexuality).[quote=“Champion, post:16, topic:112700”]
Xenophon himself never criticized pederasty and, as an Athenian, it can be assumed he thought it to be normal. In his writings he seemed surprised by Spartan opposition, rather than supportive. You can find more details on this relatively easily.
[/quote]

Plato in The Republic criticizes male homosexuality along with the myth that Zeus abducted Ganymede. Philosophers such as him and Xenophon presented themselves as more frugal and spiritual than the mass of Athenian democrats who they despised. The idea of passionately and non-platonically pursuing male lovers would’ve been seen as an affront by them.

In The Laws, Plato writes:

We’re faced with the fact that though in several other respects Crete in general and Sparta gives us pretty solid help when we frame laws that flout common custom, in affairs of the heart they are totally opposed to us.

Suppose you follow nature’s rule and establish the law that was in force before the time of Laius. You’d argue that one may have sexual intercourse with a woman but not with men or boys. As evidence for your view, you’d point to the animal world, where you’d argue the males do not have sexual relations with each other, because such a thing is unnatural. But in Crete and Sparta your argument would not go down very well, and you’d probably persuade nobody.

This sounds more like Plato’s concept of “platonic love” then it does a realistic picture of same sex relations in Sparta. But regardless, the relationship was clearly portrayed by Plutarch as being romantic in nature, sodomy with a free male may have been prohibited and taboo, but that does not eliminate homosexuality.[quote=“Champion, post:16, topic:112700”]
Sparta was not the only city state thought to not practice such acts.
[/quote]

Most historians and scholars accept that pederasty was common in Sparta, it’s only really right wingers who have a hard time accepting it. Next they will be saying Kerkylas of Andros was a real person.


#18

As do I. However, peace should always be sought. War isn’t something you should want to be a part of. I didn’t join for Wars, but I did join to serve and for my education. If ever put into battle, fight I will. But to wish for war just so you can get that experience, is dumb. Especially with the danger that a war between these nations brings. The amount of lives lost, would be greater than we have seen in our lifetime. If you wish to be apart of war now, I don’t think you’ll be saying the same thing when you see your fellow brother or sister fall in combat. Or when an innocent child is lying the ground charred.


#19

“War isn’t something should want to be a part of.”
“I welcome the opportunity.”

:thinking:[quote=“Mac1826, post:18, topic:112700”]
Or when an innocent child is lying the ground charred.
[/quote]

Have fun with the child soldiers who’ve been brainwashed by propaganda to believe that Americans will rape and eat their families.


#20

I don’t necessarily welcome the opportunity, but if it happens it happens.