Who will win the next US Presidential election?


Those in absolute poverty are small minority of the voters. Disillusionment and disenfranchisement of the working and middle classes is a much bigger concern, with the former being the whole reason Trump got elected in the first place. Having an LBJ-style classical progressive might be the best options for the Democrats. I see someone like Bernie taking that role, but ditch the PC bullcrap (not civil rights and social justice as a whole


I say we need another Teddy Roosevelt.


Did you read my mind?


:musical_note: let the midnight special China light on meeee :musical_note:


Yes, I used the wrong word there- I should have said inequality not poverty. Disillusionment among the middle and working class doesn’t spout from absolute poverty, but rather from inequality- essentially the fact that 3 men in America- Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Jeff Bezos have more money combined than the bottom 50% of Americans. A classical progressive may be all well and good, but as Obama (amazing as he is) proved, they will do very little to lower this divide. I think the reason people voted Trump is because he does rage against the very richest (people are very good at overlooking the fact he’s one of them) but he rages against them for there generally socially liberal stances (and yes I do know there are many millionaires and billionaires who have exceedingly reactionary positions), on things such as foreign aid, gay rights, immigration and abortion. Sanders is a good candidate, because while he fully supports all the socially liberal stances but also acknowledges that wealth inequality is a massive problem.


Inequality is a problem but drastic wealth redistribution is glorified theft and exploitation


Exploitation? Give me a break.

If you want to talk about exploitation let’s take a look at what’s happening in Europe, North America and basically everywhere else, where 99% of the population is being manipulated, lied to and fobbed off by millionaires, billionaires and the government. So if wealth redistribution is exploitation, it’s nothing compared to centuries of exploitation of working class and middle class by businessmen, oligarchs and elitists.


What Kaiser was saying is men are entitled to create, and with those creations they are entitled to the yield. 99% of the population are being manipulated and you aren’t part of that collective? What makes you special?


Oh? And what is inherently evil about businessmen? What is inherently evil about business? People have a demand. Businessesses keep up the supply for that demand. So long as the businesses pay their workers a fair share of the profits then I see no issue.

Now when companies lie to consumers or cheat their workers that’s another thing, and I’m sure you’re gonna focus on that, but the core of the system in western society is fine. The problem is everything around it.


He’s a Socialist, profit for the business owner can’t exist.


profits (not money made but actual net profits once non-labor costs are accounted 4) should be split evenly between all parties (workers, investors, and business owners) relative ot the contribution of each. Realistically, the investors and business owners will always get a bit more than they deserve but so long as the amount stays negligible then it can be tolerated


I never really think the government should tell business owners how to distribute their wealth within their own business.


Well unfortunately sometimes businesses do exploit their owners. From there you can go one of two ways:

One: Unions. This allows workers to get together and negotiate their own terms. The issue here is that the unions can become just as corrupt as the corporations themselves creating a stalemate

Two: Government mediates. This allows (hypothetically) a medium whereby workers and employers can agree. If either side (or both sides) become hardasses then the government can step in and push negotiations.


I am all for Unions, it is a voluntary agreement from all three sides, skilled workers get to collectively bargain, the industrialists make more money because the workers work for what they want and not what the government tells them what they work for, and the individuals that abstain from joining a union have higher bargain power in certain situations.

I don’t think I should have a say in what an industry I have no part of does with its workers.


But what if the company refuses to allow its workers to form unions? Is that not a violation of the 1st amendment (right to free assembly)?

Damn this pocket constitution comes in handy


It would be, which is why the government would then step in; only when the individual’s rights are violated should the government step in. However I don’t think the government needs to go any further than to protect Unions form forming. I honestly think a government mandated minimum wage is bad, the union’s collective bargaining should provide for that, or the individuals who abstain from unions should be able to bargain for themselves. Regulations of Unions and Businesses is useless as the Unions will regulate the Business and the Business will regulate the Union. It is a balancing act and it doesn’t need daddy government’s overweight self on the balance.


What about child labor laws?

IMO the minimum wage should be abolished, as should welfare and public housing. I’d replace them with a UBI; less bureaucracy, less bullshit


Child labor laws are harder in my opinion, but I do think children age 10 up can work unskilled job. I do think the public education would stop them from being able to stop attending school quit school as if they don’t show up to school their parents can be arrested.

If people don’t want to see children in the work place, just stop buying from places that use them. Damn shame everything in Asia has a child’s finger print on it, so it would be hypocrisy to say Child Labor is evil as you indulge in the fruits of the child’s work.


Well there is evidently something wrong with the economic core of western society (It’s not even society that is the problem, it’s capitalism, society is actually capitalism’s longstop) when things like what you said (companies lying to consumers and cheating their workers) happen ALL THE TIME. It shows us that there is an intrinsic problem with capitalism- namely, when you give people power they always end up, no matter their intentions, manipulating people.

Wow we seriously got off topic…


I never claimed not to be part of the 99%